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HEY YOU GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT WE NEED GENDER EQUALITY: an intro thingy about feminism *content warning, suggested for ages 11+*

HEY YOU GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT WE NEED GENDER EQUALITY: an intro thingy about feminism *content warning, suggested for ages 11+*

Posted June 23rd, 2013 by L.S.Trendom

L.S.Trendom's picture
by L. S. Tredom
in some alleyway in sweden crying

June 23rd, 2013

HEY YOU GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT WE NEED GENDER EQUALITY
an intro thingy about feminism

written by L. S. Tredom, Lily09, DragonRider, and cheezemziez

 

Alrighty, KidPubbians. So, the four of us, L. S. Tredom, Lily09, DragonRider, and cheezemziez, are approaching a topic that’s a little more serious and more touchy: feminism. Now, please don’t get scared and run away. A common misconception is that feminism is the hatred of males, but it’s not! The hatred of males is misandry, the complete opposite of misogynythe hatred of females. Feminism is a movement that helps bring equality and eradicate gender stereotypes for EVERYONE, including females, males, and non-binary genders. And if feminism is designed for everyone, then why does it sound a lot like female? Well, feminism is primarily for women, to bring empowerment to women but it also helps males and non-binary genders. By bringing down sexist ideas, it allows men to express themselves freely, too. And feminism doesn’t just deal with sexism, it deals with many other problems in society. Being a male feminist doesn’t make you feminine or a traitor to your gender. Feminists aren’t necessarily celibate out of hate for men, nor are they all lesbians, nor do they collectively want to take over the world and kill all men. Fitting a gender stereotype doesn’t make someone anti-feminist or a promoter of negative ideas. Gender equality doesn’t mean stopping people from identifying as a particular gender, it means equal rights for every gender.

 

SEXISM

So, the main thing that feminism deals with is sexism, judgement and discrimination based off of a person’s gender. A huge part of this sexism is patriarchy, a social system where males are more dominant than females. Patriarchy can occur on a smaller scale, such as romantic relationships or in a family, to a much bigger scale, like the government. In patriarchal societies, males are viewed as if they are higher and better than women. This creates an unequal society, a society where females are often ignored, objectified, treated like they are of less worth than men, and expected to fulfil the expectations of men. If you think that patriarchy isn’t happening everywhere across the world, you’re wrong. It is happening everywhere, just look around! It’s happening in romantic relationships, where the male partner may act as if they are better than the female. It’s happening in families, where the father may be deemed as the leader. It’s even happening in the government and military. Where does feminism fit into this scene? It should be obvious by now. Feminists are trying to get rid of patriarchy so that both women and men are viewed as equals, not one gender higher than the other.

Another part of sexism is the stereotypes of females and males. Probably the most general stereotype for females is that females are feminine, they stick to girly and frilly things. Females are supposed to like pink and make up and be obsessed with their looks and their clothes. The most general stereotype to males is that males are masculine, they stick to more manly and tough things, such as video games and sports. They are expected to not shed tears because feelings are for women. Well, that’s WRONG. Females can be masculine, and vice versa, males can be feminine. Females can also be feminine AND masculine. Males can be masculine AND feminine, too! It doesn’t make you a ‘dyke’ to be masculine as a girl just as it doesn’t make you ‘gay’ to be feminine if you’re a male. Your sexual orientation does not have anything to do with the way you act or dress. Feminists are constantly trying to eradicate these stereotypes, so males and females can act however they want!

Expectations are also part of sexism. Expectations like what? The expectation that females must be the housewives, the cookers, etc. and the expectation that a male has got to protect and provide for the female. These expectations date back to a long, long time ago, so it’s kind of easy to see how they are still carried out today. But they SHOULDN’T exist now, because believe it or not, women can actually protect themselves and men should do the chores in the house too. I mean, it’s perfectly fine if a female WANTS to be a housewife or cook for the man, that’s great! And if the male WANTS to provide for the family, that’s fab too! BUT, these expectations should not be a requirement. They’re sexist, because it implies that women can’t be independant and do things for themselves.

Sexism used to be a lot more prominent before, and sure, equality has improved, but it still exists and it still shows in aspects of everyday life.

 

 

RAPE CULTURE *HEAVY TRIGGER WARNINGS, you may skip this topic if it triggers you*

Your friend makes a joke about how someone’s behaviour was ‘totes rapey’ or maybe you’ve seen a popular internet meme about sloths and rape?? Yes? No? Mebbe? Well, we’ve all heard rape jokes, and maybe we’ve made some ourselves. You might be saying, “Wait a minute. What is rape culture and what the heck do rape jokes have to do with it?” Rape culture is when you tie rape to the culture of a society together, trivializing rape and making rape acceptable. You might think that rape jokes don’t make rape acceptable, but it does! By making rape jokes, you’re making rape a normal thing and a funny thing. People begin to see rape as funny. Don’t believe me? If you haven’t been living under a rock, you know about the the Steubenville rape case, how a girl who was intoxicated(being drunk doesn’t make it okay for anyone to get raped, guys :I) was raped by her peers, which was later viewed as funny. It’s disgusting and awful and it shows how people can be taught that rape is alright. You trivialize the problem of rape and make it alright. Not to mention how triggering rape jokes can be for a rape or sexual abuse survivor.

An example of how terrible rape culture can be is, well...the Steubenville case. Not only was a sixteen-year-old girl raped, but the football players who assaulted her—and peers who had just watched it happen—later posted pictures of her. She was shamed for being a ‘slut’, and people sympathised with the rapists. One CNN reporter said, “It was incredibly difficult … to watch what happened as these two young men that had such promising futures, star football players, very good students, literally watched as they believe their life fell apart.“ A legal consultant for CNN stated, “The most severe thing with these young men is being labeled as registered sex offenders. ...That will haunt them for the rest of their lives.” (However, he’s incorrect; they may or may not be put on the sex offenders registry, WHAT THE F***?!) People who sympathise with rapists are called rape apologists. They shift the blame from the rapist to the victim, as if it was the girl’s fault. They say that the rape was justified because she was drunk so she couldn’t say ‘no’ (an absence of ‘no’ is not consent), because of how she was dressed, because she was acting flirty, etc. But just because she dressed a certain way, at a particular place or she was acting a certain way does NOT make rape okay! You don’t blame murderers if the person they killed was bothering them, so why blame victims of the rape, just because how they were acting or how they were dressed bothered the rapist? It’s disgusting that the Steubenville rape case happened, and it’s also disgusting how people are sympathising with the rapist. *lily is heard swearing and angrily ranting in the background*

Rape culture is an actual thing, not something made up by angry feminists. It makes rape a normal thing and many, many times, it slut shames. And what is slut shaming, you ask?

 

 

SLUT SHAMING

Most people know what sluts are, right? Girls who date too many guys, wear too show-y clothes, act a certain way. Well, lemme tell you something.
        There’s actually no such thing as a slut.

*collective gasp from the crowd* It’s true. Acting a certain way, dressing a certain way, dating a number of people, does not make someone a slut. They’re still a person, they just like to wear certain clothes and act a certain way and date however many guys they want and sleep with whoever they want. It’s none of your business. Slut shaming is when a person is labelled as a slut and they’re shamed, basically. They’re brought down from from human status to less than human (I just stole that from Laci Green, I’ll link to her at the bottom of this thing.)  Slut shaming is not alright, at all! Why should a person be judged for not conforming to society’s standards by wearing clothes that expose skin? Like, c’mon guys. It’s just skin. Stop sexualizing body parts. Her body is not yours and she can do what she wants with it. Why should a person be judged for the way they act? Or because of the number of guys she’s been with or slept with? Is it really any of your business?

Slut shaming is also a huge double standard. There are far fewer derogatory terms for sexually promiscuous guys, and sometimes they’ll even be praised by their peers, instead of shamed.

 

 

UNACCEPTANCE

This is a big deal with feminism because unacceptance is everywhere. Unacceptance of oneself or unacceptance of others. We’re going to start with unacceptance of oneself because it’s  HUGE, HUGE, HUGE deal. I know a lot of you guise are having problems with accepting yourself, your body and personality and what makes you, you. A lot of this pressure to be society’s standard of ‘beautiful’ comes from the media, where images of women are edited to make them more ‘attractive’.  Almost all feminists think that people should love themselves. Body positivity, you feel me? Your weight? It doesn’t matter! Fat? That’s great! Skinny? Cool! Average? Awesome! And how you look, well, you look just fine! What does matter is your personality. Are you a good person? Great! That’s all that really matters. And maybe it’s hard for you to accept that you’re a good person, maybe you’re not hatin’ your body but maybe you hate the way you are and the words you say and the thoughts you think but... really, you’re probably a good person. And acceptance of yourself is a long, long road. It’s going to take a long time to love yourself for who you are, but it’s important that you do love yourself. Love yourself, guys (:

And not only should people accept themselves but it’s important that people accept others too. A lot of people shame others for their weight for how they look but they shouldn’t. There’s nothing wrong with being fat (except for health risks, but even then you can’t determine someone’s health by their weight) or looking a certain way, but still, people are judged and shamed every day for it. It’s not alright, it lowers the person’s self esteem and it creates pressure and an ignorant, and narrow-minded society.

Unacceptance is a huge thing, but it really needs to go. It’s close-minded and allows no room for change. And maybe the change unacceptance is rejecting might actually be a change for a better community and a better society.

 

 

So, what is feminism, again?

Feminism is a movement for equality, especially for women, but it solves many problems  among men too. The things we discussed are just a portion of what feminism really is. And if you’re interested in becoming a feminist, we’ve got tons of resources...

If you have any questions, or if you disagree, feel free to comment or contact any of us!

 

 

CHECK OUT - got any other sites? comment!

Feministing - a site for young feminists

http://feministing.com/

 

Feminish - blogs about feminism

http://www.feminish.com/

http://feminishblog.tumblr.com/

 

Femusings... - a site about sexism in pop culture

http://femusings.com/

 

Who Needs Feminism? - a blog about who needs feminism and why

http://whoneedsfeminism.tumblr.com/

 

FORCE: Upsetting Rape Culture - a site about getting rid of rape culture

http://upsettingrapeculture.com/

http://upsettingrapeculture.com/rapeculture.html

 

This Is Rape Culture - a blog of what rape culture looks like

http://thisisrapeculture.tumblr.com/

 

Sex+ with Laci Green - figuring out sexuality, body postivity, gender, and equality

http://www.youtube.com/user/lacigreen

 

See more stories by L. S. Tredom
yayyyy   

yayyyy 

 

Posted by Lily09 on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:33
Probably should put a

Probably should put a warning on this because some younger kids couldn't handle this because of some of the topics discussed. Good thing to discuss, just not sure if kids like 9 or 8 should see this.

Posted by Rainy on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:13
Great post, with a lot of

Great post, with a lot of excellent points. It's horrible what's going on today. x_x Anyways, I loved this. Great job. But I do agree with Rainy - maybe put a trigger or maturity warning?

EDIT: Oh, wait, you did. My bad. Go on with your lives then ^^

 

 

 

Posted by camikat on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:20
 A lot of good points are

 A lot of good points are mentioned here. Great job to all of you for writing this! I especially wish they would get rid of feminism in schools-- I know one of my teachers had a lot of negative stereotypes about women.

Posted by Rachel on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:24
Thank you so much for

Thank you so much for posting this. I didn't really know what femenism was, and this has also opened myeyes to a lot of new opinions and problmes.

This was a well written article with a lot of writer's voice that has easily persuaded me to the femenist side. I got really mad during the Rape Culture part and was also angrily ranting. >:(

Once again, thank you for posting. Favorited.

 

"If only everyone took the time to look, then they would see as well."~Invisible by Cherrybomb

Posted by Lost in the Rai... on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:27
*claps* To add about slut

*claps* To add about slut shaming: some people think that wearing 'immodest' clothes is sexist, but it's not. Putting confinements on your gender is sexist.
-
http://www.kidpub.com/forum3/picture.php?albumid=467&pictureid=5852

Posted by Jesse on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:47
Thank you guys so much for

Thank you guys so much for posting this. It gives so much more of an insight as to what feminism really is--and hey, it even taught me a few things. I believe this subject really needs more attention, and I really enjoyed it. Again, great job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If one wants to be a writer, one must do two things above all others: read a lot and write a lot." ~Stephen King

Posted by Da MaggieMaysta on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:41
Wow... that was amazing

Wow... that was amazing insight on this, and I'm truly impressed!  Great job Tredom, Lily, DR, and Cheeze

?~*Purple Indigo*~?

Posted by Purple Indigo on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:55
you guys omfg i'm in love

you guys omfg i'm in love with this post im gonna take it to las vegas and marry it

Posted by monica elm on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:06
I hope you don't mind having

I hope you don't mind having a co-wife because I'm marrying this post too!

 

Posted by Aida on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 03:21
Wow... Amazing insight on

Wow... Amazing insight on this topic.

~I'm not afraid of imaginary things.~

Posted by Master Mage (TD... on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:08
Wow. This...is an awesome

Wow. This...is an awesome piece of work. This should be featured on the NMG website! (a site and mag I like for girls)!!!!! Do you mind if I post a link  in "My Stuff"? If you don't know what I'm talking about, go to

www.newmoon.com

and search "Frappuccino, age 12." It should come up with my room!!! :)

 

Poetry is a beautiful thing....

Posted by Luna Sangwa on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:30
hey it's lily09! Sure, we're

hey it's lily09! Sure, we're fine with that as long as credits given :D

Posted by Sammy Pendragon... on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 03:29
Of course! Poetry is a
Posted by Dalek on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 17:10
/thumbs-up. This is eerily

/thumbs-up.
This is eerily like the English exam comprehension that I did about two weeks ago. Except that one focuses mainly on education in gender inequality.
Very good. Covers a lot of points, as Cami said.

Fear cuts deeper than swords~Syrio Forel / Arya Stark.

Posted by Spasming Llabricorn on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:29
Great informational post.

Great informational post. pRo FeMiNiSm. <3 <3

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

Posted by ChaiseHead (Arin) on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:34
I want to give you a huge

I want to give you a huge hug right now, LST.  This was amazing and all of it was so true.  Thank you for fighting like a girl.  :))) 

Posted by Copil al Intune... on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 01:07
This is awesome. This is

This is awesome. This is just simply too awesome. too great. too relatable and that's great. Hey would you mind if I use this bit in some other places? I'll give credit mind you but I have to ask

*this bit*

Almost all feminists think that people should love themselves. Body positivity, you feel me? Your weight? It doesn’t matter! Fat? That’s great! Skinny? Cool! Average? Awesome! And how you look, well, you look just fine! What does matter is your personality. Are you a good person? Great! That’s all that really matters. And maybe it’s hard for you to accept that you’re a good person, maybe you’re not hatin’ your body but maybe you hate the way you are and the words you say and the thoughts you think but... really, you’re probably a good person. And acceptance of yourself is a long, long road. It’s going to take a long time to love yourself for who you are, but it’s important that you do love yourself. Love yourself, guys (:

Posted by Aida on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 03:20
hey its lily09. you can

hey its lily09. you can absolutely use it :D thank you!

Posted by Lily09 on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 03:31
Thank YOU! this post was

Thank YOU! this post was really great lily and I hope that you guys make more like this in the future!

Posted by Aida on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 03:37
This is incredible!!! Very

This is incredible!!! Very informing, and I personally think it should be published. 

And on the note of Unacceptance- (I studied health this year)- If someone is fat, there very much could be some health problems there, but by shunning them or making fun of them or making it obvious, that particular person will have even more health problems if they decide to go down the path of anorexia or bulimia. People don't realize it, but anorexia and bulimia can be deadly if taken too far for too long. Many teens and young adults of this generation have started starving themselves or throwing up everything they eat, and the saddest part is it's not even their fault. Something like this comes from an outside cause such as family problems or most common: unacceptance. 

 

So yeah. And I also agree with the whole thing you did there on the Stuevenville Rape case. It was really sickening and disgusting that someone would do that. 

 

 

"Something inspiring" ~Me

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If mutants are freaks, that makes us the freaks of the freaks." Start reading The Outlanders: http://www.kidpub.com/book-page-or-chapter/outlanders-book-onered-introd...

Posted by Maestro Fez (To... on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 10:00
Thank you. It is true that

Thank you.

It is true that people whose bodies are unhealthily abnormal need medical help, but much fewer people are actually dangerously overweight than is widely believed: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/opinion/our-imaginary-weight-problem.html

 

It is the quality of one's convictions that determines success, not the number of followers. -Remus John Lupin, d. May 2 1998

Posted by Ingsoc (cheeze) on Wed, 06/26/2013 - 11:52
*applauds* This is

*applauds* This is brilliant, guys! It's so well-written and I agree with you 100%! To all who wrote this: Thank you for writing such an insightful post! 

Posted by NightOwl0_0 (a ... on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 11:27
Hay, thanks so much for
Hay, thanks so much for reading and commenting! We're glad you liked it, it means a lot to us that we have educated you guys about such an important topic! 
- From LST, Lily09, DragonRider, and cheezemziez
Posted by Lily09 on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 12:38
Awesome. This is really well

Awesome. This is really well done and cool.

Welcome to Byd. http://sagaofbyd.weebly.com/

Posted by Writer M on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 18:17
The one thing I've noticed

The one thing I've noticed about Feminism is that it supposidly promotes gender equality, eradication of sexual/gender stereotypes (and I am aware "sexual" and "gender" are two different words and have two different meanings), yet "Feminin" is the root word; conitating females. A bit of bias here, pherhaps? Also, these topics are mainly focusing of the victimization of females, not neccisarly males. While the latter does appear in a rather afterthought-like way every once in a while, it appears mroe to be a last minute attempt to remind readers that Feminism is supposidly focusing on both genders of the issue.

On a more personal note, in the case of rape, I've never heard a joke made of it. Perhaps I'm simply an outlier in a wide and acknowledged statistic, but it seems to me that most controversal topics really aren't joked about. Moving on to the Steubenville  case, I've lived in the U.S. for nearly seven years now (literate for six), and have never heard of it. However, it seems to me that this is a shocking exception in reactions to rape in the veiw of the public (specifically the American public), and thus has been used to convince people of how horrid a crime it may be (and believe me, it is no small crime. Having seen the effects of it myself, it is nothing to be passive about) via an extreme to provoke an emotional reaction to get them to favor the more radical side of punishment for this specific crime (that's another debate of which I shan't fall into).

However, let me point out that while rape is never deserved, women must realize that dressing provocatively has the consiquence within the word itself. In other words, every time you walk into school or wherever you might be headed in tight jeans or a low cut top (or even a high collar top that falirs your "upper body"), you are sexually provoking men whether you mean to or not. Granted, there is a time and a place for this, but in the case of school, you are in an acedimic enviroment and are there to learn, not to fuck. So while this in no way means you are deserving of rape, it does mean that you must dress carefully, as the lines drawn when it comes to sex are usually very unclear to the other person. And it is unfair to men when they are teased and then socialy ostricized for reacting in a natural way (by social ostricism, I'm referring to derrogitive labels given to men such as "pervet" which immediatly destroys the person's social reputation and gives them no chance to redeem such reputation as labels have a permanent affect).

 

Just my anylisis.

 

I DID have a signature, but gave up on coming up with something clever. So behold! My signature!

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Mon, 06/24/2013 - 23:58
Okay, let's say you bake

Okay, let's say you bake some cookies and you leave them on the counter with a DO NOT TOUCH sign. If someone goes and takes a cookie, does that make it the cook's fault for leaving them there?

Sure, the cookies would be safer if they weren't out in the open, but you should know not to take one. The sign specifically says so.

The cook isn't teasing people by leaving he cookies out. You should KNOW that you can't take things that aren't yours.
-
http://www.kidpub.com/forum3/picture.php?albumid=467&pictureid=5852

Posted by IT WAS A KIDNEY... on Tue, 06/25/2013 - 11:04
You missed my point. I know

You missed my point. I know I can't take the cookies, in this case (what a colorful metaphor, by the way), and its not right because you cannot simply tell someone that there are cookies and not to eat them.

As I said, no one is deserving of rape. But women have become too overconfident in that they believe they can do whatever they want with no consiquences. While this is not to say that the direct consiquence is always rape, or even that this is a consiquence, but rather its a form of unjustness.

 

I DID have a signature, but gave up on coming up with something clever. So behold! My signature!

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Tue, 06/25/2013 - 22:01
*trigger warning

*trigger warning throughout*

The reason that the word feminism is stemmed from the word as female is because when the fight for gender equality was given a name, society was heavily biased against the females, so the earlier stages were based around women fighting for the same rights as men.

We realise that we should have put more in about the male part of gender equality, so we'll talk a bit more about that now. Misandry, although less well known, is a widespread issue in our society. Men are ridiculed for not being able to do things that the traditional male is expected to do, for not liking the things that the traditional male is expected to like, for not dressing in the way that the traditional male is expected to like. Men’s issues are largely deemed as less urgent than women’s, which is sexist and wrong. Men who are victims of domestic abuse are pressured into not reporting it, as people find it difficult to believe that the woman can be the attacker, as men are physically stronger. Male rape victims also suffer from the same issue, and many people don’t even believe that a man can be raped. Other aspects of rape culture are also misandric, such as blaming rape by men on the clothes and the situation instead of the rapist. This implies that the natural state of men is ‘rapist mode’, and that they have no self control. Not all men are rapists, and not rapists are men, and it is sexist to assume that they are. Feminism is striving for gender equality, the acceptance of people even if they don’t fit the traditional gender stereotype, and the acknowledgement that crimes aren’t gender specific.

 

Steubenville is just an example, because it was well known on several websites. Jokes about rape are fortunately absent where you are, but this is not the case everywhere. Speaking from two different states and another country, we have all heard these jokes much too often. As well as in the offline world, many parts of the internet are home to offhand comments and jokes about sexual assault. Only 5-25% of rapes are actually reported, and not all of those are investigated. A shocking number of people don’t believe in the existence of rape at all.

http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape

When the question was worded without use of the word ‘rape’, 6% of the (male) students admitted to attempting or committing rape, often more than once. These men are still out there. They have openly admitted to rape, and they are still allowed in public. They haven’t been punished at all. Think of how many others there were who didn’t admit to it.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/279815400ad65a37187b4766ca64f088/tumblr_mjzv1uWwdd1qjis8mo1_500.jpg

This page from a book on rape study shows high school students’ collective attitude to rape in specific situations when it is phrased differently.

 

Rape is never, ever, ever the victim’s fault. It is the rapist’s fault. Women do not dress to please men. Certain women might sometimes, but generally, people dress to please themselves. They dress to feel happy and comfortable.  Not all men like women, not all people who like women are men. If someone chooses to dress in a certain way and reveal certain parts of their body, and they are okay with people seeing those parts which they have knowingly chosen to show, then there’s nothing wrong with people looking. There is more damage to the reputation and the respect that people have for the one being looked at than the ones looking. Touching their bodies without their permission is very, very wrong. Like what Jesse said in his comment. The cook left the cookies on the counter, with specific instructions for people not to take them. He didn’t mind that other people could see the cookies, so he left them on the counter instead of somewhere where other people couldn’t see them. This was not an invitation for other people to take the cookies. There are items visible in shops which are not attached to anything or locked up. The fact that the items are visible is not permission to steal them, or anything else from the shops, because that is wrong. Looking when they are allowed to look may be natural. Rape is not natural, and it is insulting to them to say that it is.

The sight of uncovered skin does not cause rape. Nudist colonies are colonies where people are naked. All of their skin is uncovered, yet nudist colonies aren't rape colonies. A lot of rapes also happen to infants and children and elderly people, showing that it isn't about the way the victim dresses. Rapists don’t always just want sex. They want to overpower someone, and it doesn’t matter to them whom it is they’re overpowering.

If something being natural justifies it, then people should be allowed to dress however they want. Why are some bits of unnatural woven bits of processed plants and oils placed on our skin more acceptable than others? Why are larger woven bits acceptable? 

 

It is the quality of one's convictions that determines success, not the number of followers. -Remus John Lupin, d. May 2 1998

Posted by Ingsoc (cheeze) on Tue, 06/25/2013 - 17:03
Jace has a point, though.

Jace has a point, though. He's not blaming rape on the victim. He's saying that because a girl chooses to dress a certain way and is choosing to show a lot of skin, a guys instincts are to be highly attracted to that. It's not really something they can help. So when a guy is caught staring at a girl dressed like that, he is being labeled a pervert. Yes, calling a girl a slut because she is dressing that way is wrong but you also can't blame a guy for being attracted to that because that's just his how his brain works.

Let's go with this whole cookie example:

No it is not the bakers fault if someone touches that cookie. But it's also cruel for the baker to set something that is so incredibly tempting out like that and then say "Nope, you can't have any." 

Plus, just in general, by dressing a certain way and showing off more skin, for centuries that has been a signal that says "I want to have sex." And although it is important to dress to your comfort, it is even more important to not give off that signal unless that's what you want. There are creeps out there and by dressing that way you're pretty much a magnet to those people, such as rapists. 

 

"Something inspiring" ~Me

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If mutants are freaks, that makes us the freaks of the freaks." Start reading The Outlanders: http://www.kidpub.com/book-page-or-chapter/outlanders-book-onered-introduction-kristina-torren-please-read

Posted by Maestro Fez (To... on Tue, 06/25/2013 - 19:39
Thank you for both defending

Thank you for both defending me and better articulating my position and points.

 

As for the balance of men, you also have a point about the way men are expected to act, and feel about acting in such a manner. However, part of how they are supposed to act is by letting women flaunt themselves, make a move of some kind (not rape, of course. I'm talking mere innocent flirtation here. And yes, that is an oxymoron), get ridiculled for it, and then are expected not to further comment or defend themselves as they are automatically wrong in their action due to a certain bias that women hold in today's soceity.

I was in no way suggesting the rape is the victim's fault. In fact, I even said it was never the victim's fault. Having grown up in my early years seeing prostitution and rape of both sexes, I can say that rape is controversal as it is wrong. It dramatically changes a person's life, and while ti is to be noted and taken seriously, it is not to be obsessed over in an attempt to bring justice to an unjust action wrongfully taken. Disscusion of rape inadvertantly discriminates against men, as it brings to mind a subconcious message to the public that because some men have raped other women and men, then men are therefore bad. It sounds outlandish on paper, but I can garentee you that when you anylize the way people react to the the word rape, you'll find I have found a truth.

 

I DID have a signature, but gave up on coming up with something clever. So behold! My signature!

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Tue, 06/25/2013 - 22:15
Half of me is screaming that

Half of me is screaming that this is stupid, and the other half of me is a strong feminist.

Just woman have more freedom to dress provocativley does not mean that a man should feel as if they have the freedom to rape them. Like Jace said, perhaps hormones may get in the way, but it isn't even that. If a woman is dressed in scanty clothing she does not immediately get jumped by a man planning to rape her. So what if woman like to show off some skin, it's the way the female body was created.  Even when you look at all the rape cases, you occasionally come across things like this- it happened in 2006, when a woman let her child go into the bathroom alone. When she didn't come out, she went into to see that her child had been raped by a seventeen year old boy who was did not have a steady mind, and then he had strangled her to "stop the pain". 

While rape may inadverdantly discriminate against men, the majority of the gender who acts against rape is female. Rape is an ugly word, and we instantly associate it with a man assaulting a woman. If a woman is wearing provacative clothing, it is still is not her fault. Having sexual intercourse with someone against his or her will is always going to be illegal and wrong, and sick. 

The female body is often used to promote sexuailty in the media. However, just because a woman dresses in scanty clothing does not mean in the least that a man with strong hormones should let his common sense be taken over. Even with everyone who says "oh, it's never the victims fault", you could be supporting them halfway. There is no "letting" in when a woman dresses, the female body has been used so often in media and by stars that now people automatically associate showing some cleavage or a few inches above the knee as a woman in the slut or whore category.

"Funerals are for the living."- TheAshWolf

Posted by soph-soph27 on Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:12
*triggering and violent

*triggering and violent themes*

'Letting'? Women don't need men's permission to dress in a certain way. They aren't necessarily 'flaunting' anything by showing it. Am I flaunting my flesh to be chopped at when I go outside without body armour on? Not everyone's urges are sexual, by going out into public I am knowingingly putting myself at the potential mercy of a potential murderer who may potentially chop my flesh up, and I am knowingly making it harder for them to resist and easier for them to do that by going out in public without body armour on.

If men's (and I am using this word because that's what you are arguing about) sexual advances can be justified by the 'natural', hormonal reactions to seeing skin, then a lot of other things can be justified by hormones. Let's talk periods. During menstruation, the hormones in the body go haywire, which can include mood swings, and sexual arousement. People on their periods are barely excused for being grumpy. But the hormones produced can make the person feel very, very angry, and very, very upset. Very, very angry and very, very upset people commit crimes of passion, such as arson, assualt, and murder. Do the hormones produced by something they can't control justify their crimes?

Feminism is against gender specific assumptions. Men are not exclusively ridiculed for making advances, but women are pretty much exclusively shamed and ridiculed for dressing how they want. Talking about rape erases the stigma around it. Erasing the stigma won't make rape culture worse, reinforcing it will. Talking about it teaches people that rapists aren't exclusively male, it teaches them that no-one apart from rapists are to blame. If we don't talk about it, people will maintain their views without the proper information. Before rape culture started to be openly discussed, a lot more people blamed the victims.

It is the quality of one's convictions that determines success, not the number of followers. -Remus John Lupin, d. May 2 1998

Posted by cheezemziez on Wed, 06/26/2013 - 15:05
trigger warning Some guys'

trigger warning

Some guys' instincts are to be attracted to that. You're not accounting for gay or asexual males (or lesbians).
"It's not really something they can help." Yes, they might not be able to help being attracted, but they can choose to avoid staring, just sayin'.

i don't consider that cruel. Say you have a fancy phone or iPod, and I want it, and you use it in front of me because you like music or texting friends or whatever. Is that cruel of you? Is that a reason for me to borrow your phone/iPod?
What do you mean by 'incredibly tempting'? Like, it's incredibly tempting for guys to hit on the girls, or it's incredibly tempting for the guys to have sex with them? speaking as a guy (albeit not a particularly straight guy :P), no matter how skimpily someone dresses (even if like idek strippers paraded through school), I would not consider them 'incredibly tempting'.

that last paragraph. nOOOO. yes, it CAN be used to signal that they're looking for sex, but that's comparable to saying, like, someone wearing an apron is giving out the signal "I want to make you food [no matter who you are, even if you're a total douchebag]!" (that's the first metaphor that came to mind, btw)
nO DRESSING SKIMPILY IS NOT THE MAIN FACTOR IN WHETHER RAPE WILL HAPPEN. Most rapes are premeditated, making what the victim is wearing not even part of the equation. And those that aren't? the rapist chooses people based on how easily they can be overpowered, not what they're wearing. and people should be able to go completely naked if they want without having to be worried about whether they're a magnet for rapists.
also here's a source: "Rape can and does strike anyone at anytime. Age, social class, ethnic group and has no bearing on the person a rapist chooses to attack. Research data clearly proves that a way a woman dresses and / or acts does not influence the rapists choice of victims. His decision to rape is based on how easily he perceives his target can be intimidated. Rapists are looking for available and vulnerable targets."

 

an intro to feminism and why it's important

Posted by L. S. Tredom on Wed, 06/26/2013 - 13:51
On the topic of

On the topic of Steubenville, this article has links to another example:

Yet victim-blaming is rampant. A case of youth rape in Canada from last year recently resurfaced in the news: Rehtaeh Parsons, 15, was gang raped by four of her fellow students, who spread photo evidence of the rape around their community; later, a distraught Parsons committed suicide. As with Jane Doe from the Steubenville rape case, peers had quickly labeled Parsons a “slut,” and a protest even broke out in support of her rapists. More cases of rape and assault are likely to come into the media’s focus, and it isn’t a stretch to assume that they, too, will be rife with victim-blaming.

 

an intro to feminism and why it's important

Posted by L. S. Tredom on Wed, 06/26/2013 - 13:34
The NAACP (an

The NAACP (an African-American civil rights group) mainly supports black people because they are still not treated equally in this society, and those were the principles they were founded on.  This, however, by no means insinuates that they think lesser of other races; instead, they want African-Americans to be able to coexist with all races, and vice versa. 

This is kinda like feminism: wanting justice for all even though it was based on helping a specific group of people.  And yes, males do face sexism.  Every single person on this planet has probably faced some sort of discrimination, whether it be because of their sex/sexual orientation/gender identity, race, religion/lack of religion, age, or physical appearance.   Feminism is trying to stop sexism and create a more tolerant world for everyone, regardless of who you are.  

 

I'm surprised you haven't heard any rape jokes, or seen the "rape sloth" meme.  Google it and you'll see that rape jokes do exist (unfortunately).    It is a horrid crime, a crime that I will never understand, and a crime I hope no one will have to go through.  Rape causes physical harm and mental/emotional trauma, and many victims still suffer from flashbacks and become depressed and/or suicidal.  In some places, the victim is shunned and thought of as "dirty".  The media covers this extensively because it should be covered extensively. 

You are correct: no person deserves to be raped.  But you are incorrect in saying that women should not dress "provocatively" because it garners attention from males.  You're making it seem as if men are sex-starved animals that will rape a woman if she's wearing anything less than a knee-length, long-sleeved dress.  You're also making it seem as if it's partially a woman's fault if she gets raped based on what she's wearing.  "...are there to learn, not to fuck": so based on what a person is wearing, it's suddenly a sign that they want to, in your terms, "fuck"?  Ridiculous and untrue.

"...it is unfair to men when they are teased and then socialy ostricized for reacting in a natural way".  What on earth?  It's okay for men to ogle over a person who never wanted the attention in the first place?  Oh, sorry, based on what they're wearing, they OBVIOUSLY wanted to be stared at and eyed over like a plaything. 

"labels have a permanent affect": For instance, "slut", "whore", "easy", "ho".  All lasting labels that chip away at your mind until you just can't take it anymore.

 

Just my analysis of your analysis. 

 

 

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 22:07
I did like your ending line;

I did like your ending line; very touche... Also, your counter pointss are very good ones, and thanks to you I can now see where people are thinking that I'm in part blaming the victim's rape on how they dress. But ti should be noted that I, too, have a point: while men may not e sex-starved animals 100% of the time, they do have a strong sex drive, which can be triggered in very subtle (or lack there of) ways (i.e. cleavage). My point remains that while women may not do this intentionally, they must see themselves from a male's perspectiv: not as some rag used for sex and sex only, but rahter a person who by wearing such clothing may suggest that they may want to fuck with you. and thus we'll attempt at flirtation, even though as many have pointed out, women dress with more revealing clothing as a matter of comfort, and not to suggest sex. As you can see, men are rather clueless--especially within their teens--as to how to approach and be comfortable around women, as well as how to see which ones want to fuck with them and which ones don't. And so in our own naivety (which for some, strange evoloutionary reason, we fail to see. Or if you beleive in Creationism, then think of it as God having a sense of humor), and thus act very rashly and often--for lack of better words--stupidly. That is not to say that men are stupid becausse they act stupid (however, this rule can be applied to some males as well as females), but rather that we need help understanding what women want from su--sex or not. My main problem with feminism is that feminists are often focused on women and women's issues of which they face in today's modern soceity. And while women do indeed still face many problems today, they seem to be blind to the fact that men still face many issues today, too. And while they many claim that they are concerned about men, too, n their attempts to further make the world recognize them, they often antagonize men whether they mean to or not (leading back to my point with Denim Day.) And on a mere side note, I do apologize about this being one big long paragraph; the indent button on my keyboard doesn't seem to function on Kidpub for whatever reason.

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 12:53
To make a better argument,

To make a better argument, you should stop using generalizations such as this: "...women... they seem to be blind to the fact that men still face many issues today, too" (paraphrasing because it's a long quote).  You cannot categorize a whole group of people as believing one thing. For instance, I am very aware of the discrimination men face. Let's say there's 200 women in the world, and 199 enjoy skateboarding.  One of those women does not enjoy skateboarding, so no matter how tempting it is, you cannot say that all women enjoy skateboarding because there's that one lady who does not like skateboarding and in actuality prefers biking or swimming in lakes.  Same goes for any other generalization: generalizations are untrue and ridiculous, not to mention inaccurate. 

You constantly bring up how males (specifically hetero/bisexual, since they're the ones who are attracted to females) have a very sexual existance that is comparable to a loaded gun: one little hint of a woman's ankle and they're off.  I disagree, because this is also a generalization, and one that seems to be defended a lot.   "Well, Billy can't help that he looked down Margie's shirt; he's a teenage boy with a high sex drive, so let's excuse it and make it socially acceptable for girls to be looked at even if they're uncomfortable with it".  That's pretty much the vibe I'm getting from you. 

"(men) thus act very rashly and often--for lack of better words--stupidly"  Are you implying that due to a man's supposedly uncontrollable sex drive and confusion with his sexuality, he may do something 'stupid' such as rape a person?  Because I don't think rape is something you mistakenly/stupidly do: "lol just raped someone oops".  No.  A lot of rapes are premeditated, actually. 

I don't know what kind of people you've met who claim to be feminists, because there are extreme people in every belief or organization.  For instance, the KKK is an extremely racist group that claim to be Christian, but they aren't based on what principles they try to preach.  Another example is the 9/11 highjackers: they are extremists who do not represent Islam, even though they claim to be Muslim.  There are extremists on a smaller scale in feminism, and they are people who take the basic belief of equality for women and turn it into something aggressive.  A lot of the time, women who are accused of hating men are called "feminazis" or "dykes".  True, there are women out there who hate men just because they're men, and this is wrong.  But the term "feminazi" is being tossed around a lot and is often used to describe any female who stands up to discrimination against women.  "Dyke" is an offensive term as well.   Feminism isn't just a "girl" thing, and I think that's why some men are shying away from it.  Feminism is for equality, for freedom from the patriarchy.  It isn't exclusively for females and never was.   

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 16:23
Also, sexism damages both

Also, sexism damages both sexes.  Ever seen those Huggies commercials that paint dads as bumbling baffoons who can't take care of babies?  Yeah, that's sexism.  Outright, it is sexist to men by making them seem like unfit caregivers, but it also implies that only women can be nurturing figures.  This further perpetuates the stereotype of mom at home taking care of the baby and dad out the door with a suitcase, ready to go to work.  

Another ad that really irritated me was the slogan "Choosy moms choose Jif!".  As if mothers are the only ones that go shopping and feed their kids.  Lately, they slapped "and dads, too!" to try to seem less sexist and stereotypical, but it's a half-assed job.  I recall in their commercials, the mothers would always be slaving away in the kitchen, while the dads would be outside building tree houses.  Even their attempt to be less sexist was sexist!    I encourage everyone to just take a moment to turn on the TV and sit through a couple of commercials, and you'll see how sexualized and sexist our culture has become.

 

And speaking of sexualization....

 

The typical Axe commercial is just so degrading, it sickens me.  "Wear this extremely obnoxious perfume and all the half-naked hot babes will throw themselves at you as if they haven't got a brain!"  -_-  -_-  -_-    Don't even get me started on the disgusting Hardee's commercials, with girls in bikinis slapping each other with hamburgers (which, by the way, are extremely unhealthy).   Women are portrayed as pretty playthings to conquer, and men their masters.  It's horrible, it's wrong, but it's happening, and it will keep happening unless we stop it. 

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 16:40
I'm not disagreeing with any

I'm not disagreeing with any of those points. In fact, I agree with all of them; thsoe are exactly the things I've trying to be saying. So thank you for that. Also, another thing to consider is how often women verbally abuse men, and get away with it. If women want to be treated as equals (and rightfully so), then they have to expect physical consiquences when they slap or verbally degrate men. Of course, there's a difference between this and abuse, and I'm by no means argueing for abuse fo either sexes whether verbal or phsyical, but when one man punches or insults in the extreme another man, that man then has every right to slug him back (just ask any guy if you don't beleive me). This principle should be carried over to women, too: they've gotten away with this kind of stuff for far too long, and it's just as degrating to a man to be verbally and physically abused as it is to a women.

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 21:27
I would think that an equal

I would think that an equal society would have both sexes refraining from physically/verbally assaulting others. 

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 21:37
Hey, as soon as you acheive

Hey, as soon as you acheive world peace, notify me. Because I will personally be the first to bow down to you.

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 21:39
I don't need anyone to bow

I don't need anyone to bow down to me to show me how fantastic I am. 

Posted by Ruza on Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:22
Hey guys! I loved this bit

Hey guys! I loved this bit so much, I put it on facebook and WeHeart it. I gave credit btw. Here is the thing I made

http://weheartit.com/entry/66807784?page=1

Posted by Aida on Tue, 07/02/2013 - 03:49
Ohmygosh, thank you so

Ohmygosh, thank you so much!!

Posted by Sammy Pendragon on Tue, 07/02/2013 - 17:14
I'm surprised by how many

I'm surprised by how many missed my point...

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:27
Forget it dude. Move on. We

Forget it dude. Move on. We all have different opinions and I think all u can do is state yours. Which you did. What is your point anyway? And who here missed it? I think all they did was disagree. M just sayin

Posted by Aida on Fri, 07/05/2013 - 05:56
You jus proved my point...

You jus proved my point...

Posted by Jace X. Anders on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 12:54
Whilst it's great that you

Whilst it's great that you have an understanding of this and you feel like you should be spreading the word, I do not believe it should be put on this sight. I can tell you feel strongly about this but the topic of rape is probably not something that should be put on a site for young writers- as there are writers as young as seven. And yes, you do have an age warning but that's not going to stop them clicking on it- if anything, it will make them more curious. And again, it's great you have an understanding of this and you know that it's wrong but things about stopping rape culture isn't appropriate for this site. If it were in a story and someone was going through these issues, maybe it would be better but when you say things as straight forward like this, it become seriously inappropriate. I don't agree with sexism or rape culture or slut shaming or unacceptance, but this isn't the site to talk about it.

Posted by Bambi (evasong) on Tue, 07/09/2013 - 21:24
If the title CLEARLY has an

If the title CLEARLY has an age warning and some one below that age clicks on it, that's no one's fault except the clicker. This is a writing website and members can write about whatever they please and if you don't like or feel like it's inappropriate then simply don't click on it or don't read on. It's nice that you state your opinion though and that is exactly what these guys did. :)

Posted by Aida on Wed, 07/10/2013 - 01:13
I merely pointed out that

I merely pointed out that this is an ALL ages writing site, but it is called KIDPub for a reason. One of the reasons so many people join this site, is the fact that they believe content is appropriate for younger ages as well. Putting a label on there that says it's for ages 11+ doesn't detract from the fact that concepts regarding rape and slut shaming are discussions best held elsewhere. I am not saying that they can't write what they want, I'm just saying that sometimes when there are far younger readers that have access to the information that there should be some boundries. A suggestion could be that if, as an older writer, you would like these discussions, perhaps a seperate section like the Writer's Block Forum for older contributors. This site could have it's own warnings prior to access. Younger kids may still be able to access but then it's a more physical choice rather than just clicking on a title in a general section. Again, I don't disagree with the topic-discussions are good- but I just disagree with the placement.

Posted by evasong on Wed, 07/10/2013 - 03:46
*nods slowly* good point (s)

*nods slowly*

good point (s)

Posted by Aida on Wed, 07/10/2013 - 08:50
Because seven-year-olds care

Because seven-year-olds care about gender equality? 

Posted by Copil al Intune... on Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:46
what are you talking about?

what are you talking about?

Posted by Aida on Thu, 07/11/2013 - 06:06
We can teach them to care

We can teach them to care and we can teach them to be accepting of themselves and others around them.

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 22:10
I'm sorry but I don't feel

I'm sorry but I don't feel this to be inappropriate....

She was very truthful and serious.

She stated mostly facts and it was very-well written.

Therefore in my opinion there is nothing wrong with her posting it.

 

"Not stealing, just borrowing with intent to keep" ~Paelen from Pegasus

There is a difference between doing something stupid and something crazy, I just so happen to do the crazy things-_-... ~MA MIND

 

P.S. She did put an age warning, if someone young decides to click on it, their fault not the writer...

Posted by Leighla on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 11:49
um, LST is a guy

um, LST is a guy

Posted by Rainy on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 14:52
I think she might've just

I think she might've just grouped us together, since three girls wrote it and one guy? I dunno. 

Posted by Lily09 on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 15:28
oh, oops XD sorry.... Derp

oh, oops XD sorry....

Derp :P

 

"Not stealing, just borrowing with intent to keep" ~Paelen from Pegasus

There is a difference between doing something stupid and something crazy, I just so happen to do the crazy things-_-... ~MA MIND

Posted by Leighla on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 17:54
You go girls!!!

You go girls!!!<3

We Sing~We Dance~We Steal Things

CH0C0L@TE LO\/ER

Posted by ChocolateLover on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 23:16
And boys. 

And boys. 

Posted by Tänze mit Schatten on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 23:31
Yesh.  Boys and girls

Yesh.  Boys and girls both. 

Posted by Ebony Bird Begu... on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 13:02
fine. everyone.     We

fine. everyone.

 

 

We Sing~We Dance~We Steal Things

HopelessRomantic

Posted by HopelessRomantic on Mon, 08/12/2013 - 03:59
 That was very well

 That was very well written, I like it :D

The only thing is, the morals I have (this is just personal opinion) is that's it's wrong to show off too much of your body, however, like you said, it's their body and their choices, and I respect that. I also don't agree with people calling other a slut just because of the way they dress, THAT irritates me.

And I am one of those people who try to be accepted...I feel left out all the time, even around family. It's sad, but it's how I feel. And I am working on being proud of who I am, but I won't be until I fix some of my bad personality traits and habits...

 

Like I said before, AMAZING job on this story/report/essay (brains not working right now...) very educational indeed.

 

"Not stealing, just borrowing with intent to keep" ~Paelen from Pegasus

There is a difference between doing something stupid and something crazy, I just so happen to do the crazy things-_-... ~MA MIND

Posted by Leighla on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 11:45
Yes, definitely.  If you

Yes, definitely.  If you are to dress that way, it should be because it makes you feel beautiful or you just like it, not because you want to conform to hollywood standards or rebel against your parents or whatever.  XD  In the words of Messy Mondays: I AM AN AVERAGE AMERICAN SIXTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL.  I DRESS IN WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT BECAUSE I WAS BORN TO BE BEAUTIFUL.  AND SEXY.  BUT MOSTLY SEXY. 

Posted by Ebony Bird Begu... on Sat, 07/20/2013 - 14:18
Wowow I am totally reading

Wowow I am totally reading this late, but this seriously one of the best things on kidpub.

"The road to a friend's house is never long." - Danish proverb

Posted by Athame (Ivy) on Mon, 08/19/2013 - 10:15
I know right!

I know right!

Posted by Aida on Tue, 08/20/2013 - 00:45
this amazingly well written.

this amazingly well written. I agree with everything on here. People constantly make jokes about rape at school, acting like it's a throw away thing of no importance. Feminism important and children should be more properly educated about it.

Posted by Bridie on Sun, 09/15/2013 - 18:29
WONDAFUL. I really love how

WONDAFUL.

I really love how it explains everything about sexism (which I knew NOTHING about), and I love how the sentences flow. Great work!

Posted by Ava on Sat, 09/21/2013 - 15:35

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