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  #2031  
Old 01-24-2017, 11:55 AM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
i thought gay was homoromantic homosexual but even so, just because they don't experience sexual attraction doesn't mean they couldn't use the same resources for lgbt people; won't people view you the same if you're gsa, whether or not you're sexually attracted to people? you'll still want to date them, marry them..taking sex out of the equation doesn't erase all the other shared struggles. i understand where people are coming from with het aces, although im not picking a side, but this just doesn't make sense to me
If you're an asexual person who dates members of the same sex, then yeah, you'll face discrimination from the people around you--just like a gay person would.

But asexuals don't experience internalized hatred for their sexuality on the same level as a gay person would. It's not even close.

The shittiest part about being gay isn't that people hate you--it's that you hate yourself, and you can't do anything to change it. Asexuals don't deal with that. To call an asexual "LGBT" is to equate their struggles to those of a gay/bi/trans person. That's my reasoning.
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Last edited by Jesse; 01-24-2017 at 11:57 AM.
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  #2032  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:03 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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In summary:
I don't think it's right to call a homoromantic asexual "gay", because the experiences are totally different. It hurts the cause of gay people to equate the two.
I mean, it's not like I actually care what people call themselves + I know it's extremely petty but those are my thoughts.
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  #2033  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:21 PM
Lily09 Lily09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
They're valid (ofc), but they wouldn't be LGBT in that they are asexuals, not gay.

gay = sexual attraction to same sex
Romantic attraction doesn't even come into the question.
....

this kinda fucked up
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  #2034  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:23 PM
Lily09 Lily09 is offline
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hatred of your identity shouldnt be a requirement to be part of a community

thats so fucked up
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  #2035  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:37 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by Lily09 View Post
hatred of your identity shouldnt be a requirement to be part of a community

thats so fucked up
I never said that..?
unless you have a quote that proves otherwise I don't even know what you're talking about.

are we just going to be reciting straw man arguments or....
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  #2036  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:44 PM
rebecca rebecca is offline
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well this seems FUNNNNNN
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  #2037  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:44 PM
meerkat meerkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
I never said that..?
unless you have a quote that proves otherwise I don't even know what you're talking about.

are we just going to be reciting straw man arguments or....
Your entire argument is sexualizing gay people lmao
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  #2038  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:44 PM
Lily09 Lily09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
I never said that..?
unless you have a quote that proves otherwise I don't even know what you're talking about.

are we just going to be reciting straw man arguments or....
my bad if im misunderstanding this and correct me if im wrong but

"But asexuals don't experience internalized hatred for their sexuality on the same level as a gay person would. It's not even close.

The shittiest part about being gay isn't that people hate you--it's that you hate yourself, and you can't do anything to change it. Asexuals don't deal with that. To call an asexual "LGBT" is to equate their struggles to those of a gay/bi/trans person. That's my reasoning."
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  #2039  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:44 PM
rebecca rebecca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
If you're an asexual person who dates members of the same sex, then yeah, you'll face discrimination from the people around you--just like a gay person would.

But asexuals don't experience internalized hatred for their sexuality on the same level as a gay person would. It's not even close.

The shittiest part about being gay isn't that people hate you--it's that you hate yourself, and you can't do anything to change it. Asexuals don't deal with that. To call an asexual "LGBT" is to equate their struggles to those of a gay/bi/trans person. That's my reasoning.
okay wow im here what am I even doing.
RIGHTO MY DUDE

I identified as asexual for a goodly chunk of time. In fact, I'm not 100% sure I still don't. My sexuality and romantic orientations are an ever-evolving mystery, I don't know what feelings I'm even capable of as an autistic person (I don't know if I can have intense romantic connection, and I struggle forming relationships). I've dated a grando total of one person who was pretty terrible tbh. But that aside.

As an asexual, I definitely experienced internalised hatred of myself for it. It's a feeling of being broken or perceived as such. To a degree, I'm still sex-repulsed and this terrifies me because I feel like I'm failing at SOMETHING. That I'm an immature child who'll never grow up and this is just another reminder of things I can't do. Like feeling attraction in terms I can understand. But I definitely felt like crap over being ace, partly because of how my ex treated it. She was very much 'oh, you're not really ace you're gonna come out as bi eventually' (I did, but I question that, whether I was pressured into that label). She was also 'you're just saying that because you've read it online' and 'haha autistic girls always say they're ace' and im like yah thanks ur a wonderful person so glad I dated u.

(some of this is retrospective)

As some others have pointed out, it's not an oppression olympics. We don't want to measure and quantify how much an acespec person experiences self-hate over this.

I've also gone through a lot of self-hatred over my confused attraction (? ish) to women, which is again a fun time. So I've been there too, hating myself over two aspects of my orientations. I'm unsure if I'm ace or aro, if I'm bisexual or biromantic.

So I mean, I'm not sure I'd ever be comfortable in a sexual relationship. I'm 18 now, and still as certain of this fact as I was when I joined KP at like, 13. A tiny little bean back then was I, and much has changed. But to say 'asexuals don't have that' is pretty unempathetic. Like, my relationship devolved because of this, because my ex couldn't accept my lack of sex drive (in part anyway) so I definitely experienced hatred toward that side of myself. And I know a good many other aces who question themselves and go through that self-hatred you argue is a Gay Exclusive Thing (tm)

I also have a lot of very good ace and acespec friends who have their reasons for considering themselves lgbt. At least one is biromantic, and another has a gf. Even if I did fall back on being ace, and identify as that again, I think I'd still refer to myself as bi to my family because it's easier for them to understand than 'oh hey I uh rly dont want sex at all' because that just gets the 'you've not tried it' argument. And I hate that argument. Have I heard that a lot. Yes. yes i have.

As I said, I'm very much uncertain about where I fall. My relationship w my ex ended over my lack of sex drive and the fact she wanted more from it than I did, emotionally and physically. Also she liked edgy racist memes too much. She's not a good person at all these days.

But would I consider myself LGBT? In some respect, probably. I don't know how yet. Still working on that stuff. Regardless, I think romantic orientations do qualify because - well, they're who you date, and people view dating as an inherently sexual thing, and are unlikely to make the distinction between homoromantic and homosexual. Like, if there's a same-sex couple out for a walk holding hands, people will assume and treat a nonsexual couple the same as they would a sexual couple there, because from their frame of reference they assume they are viewing a sexual relationship. Therefore homoromantic aces in same-sex relationships will still experience oppression.

The debate always will be about cishet aces/aros though, people always bring it back to that. And that's a complex one I'm not willing to get into here. But prior rambling aside, these are my thoughts on your above argument.

Sorry about lack of sense made here, I'm trying. And uh...dont expect a reply for like a year bc I never check this site anymore lmao oh yeah hey guys
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  #2040  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:48 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat View Post
Your entire argument is sexualizing gay people lmao
as the gay person in this debate I think I know what I'm saying
I'm not "sexualizing gay people", sexuality is literally what determines your sexuality
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