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  #41  
Old 09-05-2012, 06:23 PM
AlgebraAddict AlgebraAddict is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
If Obama is reelected, then people who make above $250,000 will have to pay an extra (or maybe it was that they will pay) 40,000 dollars. If you make 150,000 or less, then you will have to pay an extra (again, I'm not really sure about whether it's "extra" or "you will pay this") 15,000. And this is all true. It's all from real policies that he agreed with or signed.

I just don't get him. Why would he want to raise taxes on the rich? A lot of them worked super hard to get there and now their money is just being taken away? And some of the poor people are just drug addicts who are too lazy to get a job. I mean, this is the land of opportunity for goodness sakes! Anyone who really wants something and works hard can get it.
Exactly.

By the way, Joe Biden announced the new campaign slogan.
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  #42  
Old 09-05-2012, 07:22 PM
sigfig sigfig is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
If Obama is reelected, then people who make above $250,000 will have to pay an extra (or maybe it was that they will pay) 40,000 dollars. If you make 150,000 or less, then you will have to pay an extra (again, I'm not really sure about whether it's "extra" or "you will pay this") 15,000. And this is all true. It's all from real policies that he agreed with or signed.

I just don't get him. Why would he want to raise taxes on the rich? A lot of them worked super hard to get there and now their money is just being taken away? And some of the poor people are just drug addicts who are too lazy to get a job. I mean, this is the land of opportunity for goodness sakes! Anyone who really wants something and works hard can get it.
Oh god, the naivete.

"How could he possible want to tax rich people? Oh those poor rich people in their ten million dollar homes, forced to pay more taxes. Oh the inhumanity."

Rich people don't get rich by working hard. It's the biggest lie that they have ever invented. Some of the smartest people in our country, the scientists and mathematicians, make well below millions of dollars. Do you mean to tell me that a CEO works harder than a miner, or blue collar worker? Do you mean to tell me he works smarter than a scientist or innovator?

People get rich in this country through business. It has always been that way, and always will be, to an extent. And business is the manipulation of goods and resources, and sometimes, people.

Take Goldmann-Sachs for example. Rich corporation. Primary income? Screwing their investors.

The ultra-rich people in this country get that way through manipulation of wealth.

Don't tell me for a second that the income curve is linear. A CEO making 100 million dollars a year is not working 1000 times harder or 1000 times smarter or being 1000 times as valuable as an average worker making 100k a year. And so he shouldn't be taxed linearly either.
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  #43  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:08 PM
Stephiey Stephiey is offline
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Oh god, the naivete.

"How could he possible want to tax rich people? Oh those poor rich people in their ten million dollar homes, forced to pay more taxes. Oh the inhumanity."

Rich people don't get rich by working hard. It's the biggest lie that they have ever invented. Some of the smartest people in our country, the scientists and mathematicians, make well below millions of dollars. Do you mean to tell me that a CEO works harder than a miner, or blue collar worker? Do you mean to tell me he works smarter than a scientist or innovator?

People get rich in this country through business. It has always been that way, and always will be, to an extent. And business is the manipulation of goods and resources, and sometimes, people.

Take Goldmann-Sachs for example. Rich corporation. Primary income? Screwing their investors.

The ultra-rich people in this country get that way through manipulation of wealth.

Don't tell me for a second that the income curve is linear. A CEO making 100 million dollars a year is not working 1000 times harder or 1000 times smarter or being 1000 times as valuable as an average worker making 100k a year. And so he shouldn't be taxed linearly either.
So you want your parents to pay between an extra 15,000-40,000 dollars in taxes???

You have to admit, a lot of the poor people are just people that got addicted on drugs, or are lazy bums. And, I'm sure that there are tons of rich people that worked hard for what they have. I have a friend who has parents that are both rich doctors. They moved here from Vietnam for better opportunities, worked their butts off, went to med school, and kept on working till they got to where they are today. Do you think they really deserve to have all that hard work taken away??
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  #44  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Stephiey Stephiey is offline
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And, even though you'll probably hate this, Sagar, Obama's totally against freedom of religion. He's making Catholic hospitals and insurance companies give out free abortions and birth control. That's against our religion. I mean, really???? I can understand maybe giving us Catholics an exception to that rule, but he doesn't even do that. And even worse: If he can do that against us Catholics, who knows what he'll try to do against other religions???

Try arguing against that.
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  #45  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:34 PM
sigfig sigfig is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
And, even though you'll probably hate this, Sagar, Obama's totally against freedom of religion. He's making Catholic hospitals and insurance companies give out free abortions and birth control. That's against our religion. I mean, really???? I can understand maybe giving us Catholics an exception to that rule, but he doesn't even do that. And even worse: If he can do that against us Catholics, who knows what he'll try to do against other religions???

Try arguing against that.
And exactly what does direction of funding have to do with anything? He's not telling a priest to make his daughter abort... He's saying that the institution has to fund healthcare for its employees. And part of healthcare is birth control.

If your religion says that abortions are bad, then great, DON'T abort. But as an employer of a funded organization, churches have the responsibility to pay for healthcare.

"We represent the church of Natural Procedures, who worship nature and despise anything manmade, therefore we will not fund vaccination for our employees." Think about how ridiculous that sounds. That's you.

And he's hardly "anti-Religion." Churches still get away with being tax-exempt organizations.
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  #46  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:38 PM
sigfig sigfig is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
So you want your parents to pay between an extra 15,000-40,000 dollars in taxes???

You have to admit, a lot of the poor people are just people that got addicted on drugs, or are lazy bums. And, I'm sure that there are tons of rich people that worked hard for what they have. I have a friend who has parents that are both rich doctors. They moved here from Vietnam for better opportunities, worked their butts off, went to med school, and kept on working till they got to where they are today. Do you think they really deserve to have all that hard work taken away??
No, I don't "have to admit," because it's simply untrue. 98% of Americans make less than 250,000 dollars. My family makes less than that. And in the path I'm choosing for life, a path that values knowledge personal satisfaction more than material gain, I will probably also make less than 250,000 dollars.

Their hard work isn't being "taken away." It's taxes. It's your contributions towards society. If you keep that attitude, then all taxes are "taking away your hard earned money" and therefore we should live in a taxless utopia.

Do I want to pay extra taxes? Of course not. Who WANTS to pay taxes?

It's not about what you want; it's about what's right.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2012, 02:13 PM
rebecca rebecca is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
So you want your parents to pay between an extra 15,000-40,000 dollars in taxes???

You have to admit, a lot of the poor people are just people that got addicted on drugs, or are lazy bums. And, I'm sure that there are tons of rich people that worked hard for what they have. I have a friend who has parents that are both rich doctors. They moved here from Vietnam for better opportunities, worked their butts off, went to med school, and kept on working till they got to where they are today. Do you think they really deserve to have all that hard work taken away??
People in America really think like that? What a selfish world. What about the people who are poor because of your lack of oppurtunities? What about the people who die in avoidable cases, just because of a lack of affordable healthcare? Their hard work is helping these people, for goodness sake, they are doctors - though mind you, if they're good doctors, people will of course have to pay for it. And consider the rich person who has inherited their money. They did no work at all, unless they murdered the person they got the money from. Do they deserve to be taxed? Of course they do. I'm not rich, by no means. If my family had to pay for healthcare, we'd probably be absolutely stuffed. My father is a socialist, as am I. To me, a perfectly logical person, anything else would be irrational. Your ignorance as to the situation of some impoverished families is moderately amusing, albeit massively annoying. Thank goodness I am not American. I would have become a mass murderer by now.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2012, 02:54 PM
cheezemziez cheezemziez is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
And, even though you'll probably hate this, Sagar, Obama's totally against freedom of religion. He's making Catholic hospitals and insurance companies give out free abortions and birth control. That's against our religion. I mean, really???? I can understand maybe giving us Catholics an exception to that rule, but he doesn't even do that. And even worse: If he can do that against us Catholics, who knows what he'll try to do against other religions???

Try arguing against that.
As a completely neutral atheist non-American, I have got to disagree. He's not forcing Catholic mothers-to-be to have abortions. He's making the so called Catholic hospitals give them out for free. The people who do want abortions, many of them will get an abortion whether you lot try to stop them or not. Which, by the way, you have no right to do. It's their decision. It's a hospital, not a church. They will try to get rid of the foetus themselves, or go to a private practice or something of the kind, and they will either get very sick because the required medical equipment and knowledge is not available to them, or they will have to pay a ridiculously high rate, because whoever does this for them will take advantage of the lack of said services in hospitals. People may die because you were unwilling to 'go against your religion'. Lives that could have been fulfilled and happy will be wrecked by the inability that they will have to care for their children, who will have to grow up in a home that can't support them. All because of someone else's religion.
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Last edited by cheezemziez; 09-06-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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  #49  
Old 09-06-2012, 06:11 PM
Stephiey Stephiey is offline
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As a completely neutral atheist non-American, I have got to disagree. He's not forcing Catholic mothers-to-be to have abortions. He's making the so called Catholic hospitals give them out for free. The people who do want abortions, many of them will get an abortion whether you lot try to stop them or not. Which, by the way, you have no right to do. It's their decision. It's a hospital, not a church. They will try to get rid of the foetus themselves, or go to a private practice or something of the kind, and they will either get very sick because the required medical equipment and knowledge is not available to them, or they will have to pay a ridiculously high rate, because whoever does this for them will take advantage of the lack of said services in hospitals. People may die because you were unwilling to 'go against your religion'. Lives that could have been fulfilled and happy will be wrecked by the inability that they will have to care for their children, who will have to grow up in a home that can't support them. All because of someone else's religion.
Yes, but these are CATHOLIC hospitals and insurance agencies. It's against their religion. And, if they don't agree, then they get fined and shut down. There's a Saint Joseph hospital (Catholic hospital) near us and it's facing being closed because they don't want to give out abortion since it would be against their religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca View Post
People in America really think like that? What a selfish world. What about the people who are poor because of your lack of oppurtunities? What about the people who die in avoidable cases, just because of a lack of affordable healthcare? Their hard work is helping these people, for goodness sake, they are doctors - though mind you, if they're good doctors, people will of course have to pay for it. And consider the rich person who has inherited their money. They did no work at all, unless they murdered the person they got the money from. Do they deserve to be taxed? Of course they do. I'm not rich, by no means. If my family had to pay for healthcare, we'd probably be absolutely stuffed. My father is a socialist, as am I. To me, a perfectly logical person, anything else would be irrational. Your ignorance as to the situation of some impoverished families is moderately amusing, albeit massively annoying. Thank goodness I am not American. I would have become a mass murderer by now.
Yes, but why would they force Americans like my family and others to pay up to $40,000 extra in taxes when they can just cut government spending?

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Originally Posted by sigfig View Post
No, I don't "have to admit," because it's simply untrue. 98% of Americans make less than 250,000 dollars. My family makes less than that. And in the path I'm choosing for life, a path that values knowledge personal satisfaction more than material gain, I will probably also make less than 250,000 dollars.

Their hard work isn't being "taken away." It's taxes. It's your contributions towards society. If you keep that attitude, then all taxes are "taking away your hard earned money" and therefore we should live in a taxless utopia.

Do I want to pay extra taxes? Of course not. Who WANTS to pay taxes?

It's not about what you want; it's about what's right.
See what I said to rebecca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigfig View Post
And exactly what does direction of funding have to do with anything? He's not telling a priest to make his daughter abort... He's saying that the institution has to fund healthcare for its employees. And part of healthcare is birth control.

If your religion says that abortions are bad, then great, DON'T abort. But as an employer of a funded organization, churches have the responsibility to pay for healthcare.

"We represent the church of Natural Procedures, who worship nature and despise anything manmade, therefore we will not fund vaccination for our employees." Think about how ridiculous that sounds. That's you.

And he's hardly "anti-Religion." Churches still get away with being tax-exempt organizations.
I'm not talking about churches, I'm talking about Catholic hospitals and insurance agencies! Gosh, why is this so infuriating??? I know that you probably don't understand since you're an atheist, but this is against our FRICKIN' RELIGION! It's like asking muslim girls to take off their habibs!! It's like going against one of the American laws. Doesn't that make any sense to you???
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  #50  
Old 09-06-2012, 06:16 PM
cheezemziez cheezemziez is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephiey View Post
Yes, but these are CATHOLIC hospitals and insurance agencies. It's against their religion. And, if they don't agree, then they get fined and shut down. There's a Saint Joseph hospital (Catholic hospital) near us and it's facing being closed because they don't want to give out abortion since it would be against their religion.



Yes, but why would they force Americans like my family and others to pay up to $40,000 extra in taxes when they can just cut government spending?



See what I said to rebecca.



I'm not talking about churches, I'm talking about Catholic hospitals and insurance agencies! Gosh, why is this so infuriating??? I know that you probably don't understand since you're an atheist, but this is against our FRICKIN' RELIGION! It's like asking muslim girls to take off their habibs!! It's like going against one of the American laws. Doesn't that make any sense to you???
Are the habibs harming others or restricting other peoples lives and opportunities? No they are not.
__________________
All my desperate calls
Echo off the walls
Back and forth
Then back again
At the bitter end
Salt and liquid blend
From the corner of my eyes
So let your heart hold fast
For this soon shall pass
There's another hill ahead.
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