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  #11  
Old 01-04-2009, 07:15 PM
Neb503 Neb503 is offline
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Yeah. I'm progresivly (I know I spelt that wrong) jewish. That means we're moveing onwards and upwards. We have gay marrages etc. Yeah.
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wonderfully really-hot-amazingly-beautiful-super-ultra-tasty Ben just posted! *hugs* for you.
I see the world with a song, a grin and a dance that you can't do without laughing.
Poetry is like music... with less notes and more words. "The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with." I am the Bear of Hugs!!!!! *hugs*
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2009, 10:53 PM
Lauren Lauren is offline
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Default Thanks guys, for all your views. It means a lot

OK I have a feeling that this will be a long post, and I really don’t know how much of this will make sense...

First, Zoe. There is proof that Jesus existed, and yet Buddha too, so does that mean that two religions are right? (Buddhism is a religion, isn’t it? I’m not sure.) What are all of you guys’ views on the religions? Are there such thing as a right religion, or a wrong one? Do they all worship the same god, even if not in the same way, and do you agree with that?

And I do the same thing – when I listen to the priest speak, like a few weeks ago when I went to my cousin’s communion, I just sat there, wondering, listening to the words and trying to find fault in them...

Ben, I know it’s what I want to believe, but the point it, I have no idea what I WANT to believe. Or what to believe.

Religion does seem like a safety system; and horrible things do happen. But do these horrible things happen from a “wrong” religion, and if so does that mean that there is a wrong religion? And evolution... I don’t really believe that the universe could have just been created, just like that. I don’t think that we – life – was just a coincidence. Millions of years of evolution. I don’t get how that could be possible, and so there must be some...some other explanation. And God seems to be the only one... It is said that in every legend there is truth, and so – I know that I shouldn’t say “legend” but...yeah – there has to be truth in God. Somehow. And yet no one really know how deep that truth runs.

HAAHAHHA *points and laughs at Maryam for losing entire thing* Crap, that impacts me... okay, seriousness. -ahem-

I know God is not forcing anything on us; if he did, we would all be religious and everyone would submit to him. And yet we don’t; humans have free will, and we must determine who we are as Claudia said; I know that god cannot do that for us. I know that we aren’t slaves, and yet, there are phrases in the bible that say things like...ack, I can’t remember anything exactly, but things about following, like the lambs of God...that makes me think of sheep, and everyone knows that sheep follow blindly. (or at least people say they do XD). So yes, I’m not going to believe anything blindly. Like I’m not going to believe evolution blindly. There is evidence for evolution; evidence that points to the arguments scientists boast. But it doesn’t seem feasible. It just doesn’t. That a bang and some bacteria and some new conditions and climate could – eventually – end up as us. We are so complex that it seems that even God would have had a job to create us – but we could hardly have been created by coincidence. And there is doubt right there. As I said above, I find it hard to believe in evolution, but equally as hard to believe in God. What does everyone think about evolution? I don’t want anyone to fight *coughclaudiaandmaryamcough* but just views...

So you’re saying that God is like our parents? (not exactly in that sense, but you know what I mean) That He made us...equipped us for the journey we call life...and then just let us go? How can He simply just sit back and watch what’s happening in this world, however much it is our own free will? Millions are suffering for things that are not their fault; I am not saying that they are God’s, but other human’s fault, and how can he simply let that happen? How could he have created people who would want to harm others, or disadvantage them? Would that perhaps be an example of free will; these people are derived from their own choosing, and free will?

And you say justice... He will punish them in what we suppose will be the afterlife, and yet, here on Earth, He lets them commit crimes and endanger the lives; He lets them do that, and punish others, punish the innocent?
And I will...I want to learn more about this. Research religion, and decide which path my life will take. That’s why I wanted people’s opinions; to research it more; have some guidance. The void you talked about – sometimes, I just feel down. Strange. Like something is distinctly missing. I don’t know whether that is God, but something is missing, and that makes me feel so horrid.

I want religion, I do, but as Claudia said – grey areas. And loopholes. Specifics. Things that don’t add up. They make doubt, and doubt it hard to overcome...



I really don’t know...how to finish this. How to reply to Calla. That’s what really got me thinking about religion again; Relient K. They made me want to believe, and yet it turned up all my doubts again.

I read your post, Calla, while listening to Be My Escape.

And I cried.



I just need to escape.
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I'd rather forget and not slow down, than gather regret for the things I can't change now
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Last edited by Lauren; 01-04-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: spelling *sheepish*
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2009, 02:56 AM
Neb503 Neb503 is offline
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What was your thing you said to me? :S I'm not saying anyone should become jewish. I just think it's the religion the suits me best.
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wonderfully really-hot-amazingly-beautiful-super-ultra-tasty Ben just posted! *hugs* for you.
I see the world with a song, a grin and a dance that you can't do without laughing.
Poetry is like music... with less notes and more words. "The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with." I am the Bear of Hugs!!!!! *hugs*
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2009, 03:08 AM
Lauren Lauren is offline
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No, I didn't say that! I was replying to your other post...I think...I forget (I did this like, four hours ago. I've forgotten XD *shocker* lol)
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2009, 07:01 AM
maryam maryam is offline
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First, Claudia - LOL, I know. No fights. Not even arguments-that-begin-to-mysteriously-resemble-fights. Peace. There we go.

Now, Lauren:
Okay. Btw, what I think the Bible means by 'lambs of God' isn't the 'folowing blindly' thing, it's that God is like your shepherd, who protects you... I get the idea, though
Mhm. My view on evolution is that, yes, it could have happened but not by itself, not by chance. To think that is, in my view, just ignorant. Because as we've said: people are amazingly complex. For example - we've all taken how we hear, the structure of the ear. We know about the three bones that knock against each other, about everything... none of which could have developed without the other two being there. Am I making sense?
Just like the eye. And our hands, and blood vessels. Our brains. FLIES, for heaven's sake. We are all amazing. Could we have turned out so beautifully proportioned by just randomness?
*shrugs* I don't know. I seriously doubt it.

I believe life is like a test - God is putting you through situations to test you. Test your strength, your moral character, your faith. We all have our problems - some much, much more than others. Yes, I think God is letting us do our own thing. Like I've said before, if God always interfered... how would we learn how to live? Again with the parent analogy. How are we going to learn anything if our parents keep interfering?
The way we act is determined by ourselves. The fact that God willed us into existence changes nothing - we are who we will ourselves to be, I think. The same thing goes for Mother Teresa that goes for Hitler that goes for the evil people who drove planes into the Twin Towers. We hold our destiny in our own hands by making our choices.

About the people who are suffering from anything happening in this world - again, we cannot just give everything to God. For one thing, how are we supposed to learn compassion? We have to act against something we don't believe in.

Evil people choose to be evil - God does not make them that way. And, yes, from these evil few, many can be hurt, be devastated. It's up to us to stop that. Either way, they're getting their punishment.

Well, what loopholes, and grey areas, and specifics? Try to specify (this is to Claudia, too, I'd like to know your objections). But really, if your doubts are about Christianity, I don't believe Christianity is true, myself - Calla should probably be able to help you there.

Oh, and the horrible things: like the Crusades, and the WTC attacks. I think (and I should think, it's usually what i follow that is being misunderstood) that you should never judge a religion by its followers 0 study the religion itself, and then make your decisions.

Hmm... I'm going to read this over after I post it to make sure it's remotely comprehensible...

Maryam
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  #16  
Old 01-05-2009, 11:43 AM
iluvsports11 iluvsports11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryam View Post
First, Claudia - LOL, I know. No fights. Not even arguments-that-begin-to-mysteriously-resemble-fights. Peace. There we go.

Now, Lauren:
Okay. Btw, what I think the Bible means by 'lambs of God' isn't the 'folowing blindly' thing, it's that God is like your shepherd, who protects you... I get the idea, though
Mhm. My view on evolution is that, yes, it could have happened but not by itself, not by chance. To think that is, in my view, just ignorant. Because as we've said: people are amazingly complex. For example - we've all taken how we hear, the structure of the ear. We know about the three bones that knock against each other, about everything... none of which could have developed without the other two being there. Am I making sense?
Just like the eye. And our hands, and blood vessels. Our brains. FLIES, for heaven's sake. We are all amazing. Could we have turned out so beautifully proportioned by just randomness?
*shrugs* I don't know. I seriously doubt it.

I believe life is like a test - God is putting you through situations to test you. Test your strength, your moral character, your faith. We all have our problems - some much, much more than others. Yes, I think God is letting us do our own thing. Like I've said before, if God always interfered... how would we learn how to live? Again with the parent analogy. How are we going to learn anything if our parents keep interfering?
The way we act is determined by ourselves. The fact that God willed us into existence changes nothing - we are who we will ourselves to be, I think. The same thing goes for Mother Teresa that goes for Hitler that goes for the evil people who drove planes into the Twin Towers. We hold our destiny in our own hands by making our choices.

About the people who are suffering from anything happening in this world - again, we cannot just give everything to God. For one thing, how are we supposed to learn compassion? We have to act against something we don't believe in.

Evil people choose to be evil - God does not make them that way. And, yes, from these evil few, many can be hurt, be devastated. It's up to us to stop that. Either way, they're getting their punishment.

Well, what loopholes, and grey areas, and specifics? Try to specify (this is to Claudia, too, I'd like to know your objections). But really, if your doubts are about Christianity, I don't believe Christianity is true, myself - Calla should probably be able to help you there.

Oh, and the horrible things: like the Crusades, and the WTC attacks. I think (and I should think, it's usually what i follow that is being misunderstood) that you should never judge a religion by its followers 0 study the religion itself, and then make your decisions.

Hmm... I'm going to read this over after I post it to make sure it's remotely comprehensible...

Maryam
Hm. Okay, I was gonna try to stay out of the evolution stuff, but I have to make one case for my side. Peacefully.

I think the world was "accidental", if thats what you want to say.We and the earth have evolved for like 13 billion years. Humans started out as fish, as cells. We are the ideal creature, we are "proportioned" like this to survive. Natural Selection and all that.

About the tests--well, if you're dead, how can you be put through a test? We can learn compassion when we're still alive, in my point of view. I just think its not fair to characterize people as good or bad. You know what shakespeare says--there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. Things are only good or bad if you have a point of view. Lets take the crusades. The "crusaders" actually thought they were doing something good. So... how does God justify that? The crusaders had wives and kids, and friends.... Many people have done good and bad things in a lifetime. Thats the grey area I was talking about.

I have studied religion (btw, maryam--I liked islam the most of the abrahamic faiths) but I did like Buddhism the most. Not that I could ever really do that, but I do try to walk through life with a certain awareness.

SO, Lauren, try to research Buddhism.... but also others.....
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2009, 02:40 PM
maryam maryam is offline
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Haha, yeah, no fights!!
You know, if you really believe that, what can I do? What you believe is up to you.
But... I still don't think it's logical!
*grins and throws up hands* Okay. Finis. We can talk more about evolution later

Where'd you get the 'dead being put through test' from? LIFE is a test... maybe you misunderstood me.
To characterize people as good and bad, and about the Shakespeare quote - well, I believe God sent down the rules that's we're supposed to abide with on this earth for a reason. You're right: how can we know what's good and what's bad?
By God's guidance (which I believe he sent down in the Qur'an, and also in the Bible and the Torah, but which got interfered with by people... but's that's a discussion for another time).
The people who went on the Crusades were mostly peasants driven to war by power-hungry nobles. The East was a rich, beautiful place; recovering the Holy Land was only a part of it. What I'm emphasizing is that God ordered: thou shalt not kill, and no one is allowed to kill in religion.
So: who were these people following? God and his guidance, or the formerly mentioned power-hungry nobles, in their ignorance?
That's why we all have a duty upon ourselves to learn as much as we can - we cannot excuse ourselves by being ignorant.
I'm not sure if THAT made sense... And oh yeah. Of course, everyone makes mistakes. But the difference between both sides of the spectrum is that one acknowleges his mistake and tries to stop - repent - and the other refuses to out of arrogance and just keeps doin' it.

About Buddhism: (really? and why couldn't you do buddhism?)
I think it's basically just a code on how to live, that everyone should try to abide by, and not a way of life by itself. MO.

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  #18  
Old 01-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Neb503 Neb503 is offline
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Fight? where? oooohhh! I wanna watch!!! *Unfolds hotdog stand* Get you're hotdogs! Fresh for the fight! (is this in the wrong place?)
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wonderfully really-hot-amazingly-beautiful-super-ultra-tasty Ben just posted! *hugs* for you.
I see the world with a song, a grin and a dance that you can't do without laughing.
Poetry is like music... with less notes and more words. "The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with." I am the Bear of Hugs!!!!! *hugs*
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2009, 12:45 AM
iluvsports11 iluvsports11 is offline
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but then throws it away as she realizes this wasn't supposed to be a fight... lol Ben....

But going back to what Lauren said--about God and everything... I think its helpful to bring up different peoples' ideas of god. One of my best friends is a Yogi, and she says her idea of god is love and wisdom and emotion, kind of things that are so hard to explain, magical, in a way. So maybe that'll help. You don't have to think of god as the big man (or woman, too--I think its judaism that doesn't designate a gender) in the sky. Maybe God is just something that you can't see, only feel--maybe it has no power at all. Its just a word that describes some sort of divine force.

Does that make any sort of sense? I just think religion doesn't have to be so concrete. Religion is just an idea, so why not make up your own?
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2009, 05:38 PM
Neb503 Neb503 is offline
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my friend made up a serious religion that's actully really good.
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wonderfully really-hot-amazingly-beautiful-super-ultra-tasty Ben just posted! *hugs* for you.
I see the world with a song, a grin and a dance that you can't do without laughing.
Poetry is like music... with less notes and more words. "The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with." I am the Bear of Hugs!!!!! *hugs*
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