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  #1991  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:43 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Okay but this is super us/europe centric
That's bc I've been talking in my experience and I haven't been outside North America - Europe area. However I don't live in a sex positive area (for women/ female-passing people anyway) considering the Southern Christians , but you're still expected to experience sexual attraction and have sex once you have a partner / are married

It's also in my experience on the blue hellsite and the wider Internet, which unfortunately tend t be western-centric
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  #1992  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:46 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Okay but this is super us/europe centric
like..... u could just say "this isn't true in Asia/wherever it's like _______"
instead of being rude and accusing me lmao
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  #1993  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:50 PM
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gay doesn't mean just sexual orientation though? like isn't that kind of sexualizing identities i guess? like children, celibate ppl, ppl who are abstinent, etc etc are still their sexuality. like what im getting at is.. if there was an 9 yo girl who doesn't experience sexual attraction cos of age and still likes boys... you'd call her straight?? which goes for like, everyone

also, personal prejudice is definitely a thing like there are def ppl out there who will be rude about asexuality but?? having a separate community would just make more sense bc there isn't any like... shared goals? the support that ace/aro people would need to work through the stuff you said isn't, as far as ive expereinced, something that the lgbt community is for. for example... het ace/aro people don't need the same resources for coming out as gay/bi/etc ppl (as in obvs ace ppl can come out as ace, but it's a whole different conversation to when you say you like your gender, or that you're a different gender). cishet ace/aro ppl won't be personally affected by, say, getting to serve openly in the military, getting legally married, being allowed to adopt, etc. all of which are key issues that the lgbt community is fighting for so?

like thinking about it as a community with shared political goals, het aces and aros don't fit in it at all?? i'm not trying to exclude ppl bc im just mean, i just genuinely don't get why... het aces and aros would want to be part of a community that does p much nothing for them in terms of the rights they're fighting for or the resources they're providing.

also @ what meera said: YEAH thinking that "you're not human w/o sex" is defs not a worldwide phenomenon, every culture has a different take on appropriate sexual behavior or lack thereof so
sexualizing identities is a good point. But if you say het aces are Straights, homo aces are Gays, you're saying that the ace part isn't important or significant



like could you guys not hate us lmao
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  #1994  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:54 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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u know what els didn't used to be part of LGBT? Trans.


Also, semi-unrelated, I hate the idea of Allies / "A is for allies" in general. Allies aren't a thing it's called not being an asshole. You don't get recognition for meeting the expectations of human decency.

I thought LGBT was supposed to be an inclusive thing, but it's full of rudeness, prejudice, sensitivity, and exclusivity.

Idk I feel like when we bring up "aces face discrimination" you're either like "lol that data is wrong" or "... yeah, so ANYWAY, aces don't belong"
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  #1995  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by venika View Post
gay doesn't mean just sexual orientation though? like isn't that kind of sexualizing identities i guess? like children, celibate ppl, ppl who are abstinent, etc etc are still their sexuality. like what im getting at is.. if there was an 9 yo girl who doesn't experience sexual attraction cos of age and still likes boys... you'd call her straight?? which goes for like, everyone

also, personal prejudice is definitely a thing like there are def ppl out there who will be rude about asexuality but?? having a separate community would just make more sense bc there isn't any like... shared goals? the support that ace/aro people would need to work through the stuff you said isn't, as far as ive expereinced, something that the lgbt community is for. for example... het ace/aro people don't need the same resources for coming out as gay/bi/etc ppl (as in obvs ace ppl can come out as ace, but it's a whole different conversation to when you say you like your gender, or that you're a different gender). cishet ace/aro ppl won't be personally affected by, say, getting to serve openly in the military, getting legally married, being allowed to adopt, etc. all of which are key issues that the lgbt community is fighting for so?

like thinking about it as a community with shared political goals, het aces and aros don't fit in it at all?? i'm not trying to exclude ppl bc im just mean, i just genuinely don't get why... het aces and aros would want to be part of a community that does p much nothing for them in terms of the rights they're fighting for or the resources they're providing.

also @ what meera said: YEAH thinking that "you're not human w/o sex" is defs not a worldwide phenomenon, every culture has a different take on appropriate sexual behavior or lack thereof so
ALSO if you're ace/aro you aren't het please don't call aro aces hets
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  #1996  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:56 PM
Zelda Zelda is offline
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Originally Posted by venika View Post
gay doesn't mean just sexual orientation though? like isn't that kind of sexualizing identities i guess? like children, celibate ppl, ppl who are abstinent, etc etc are still their sexuality. like what im getting at is.. if there was an 9 yo girl who doesn't experience sexual attraction cos of age and still likes boys... you'd call her straight?? which goes for like, everyone

also, personal prejudice is definitely a thing like there are def ppl out there who will be rude about asexuality but?? having a separate community would just make more sense bc there isn't any like... shared goals? the support that ace/aro people would need to work through the stuff you said isn't, as far as ive expereinced, something that the lgbt community is for. for example... het ace/aro people don't need the same resources for coming out as gay/bi/etc ppl (as in obvs ace ppl can come out as ace, but it's a whole different conversation to when you say you like your gender, or that you're a different gender). cishet ace/aro ppl won't be personally affected by, say, getting to serve openly in the military, getting legally married, being allowed to adopt, etc. all of which are key issues that the lgbt community is fighting for so?

like thinking about it as a community with shared political goals, het aces and aros don't fit in it at all?? i'm not trying to exclude ppl bc im just mean, i just genuinely don't get why... het aces and aros would want to be part of a community that does p much nothing for them in terms of the rights they're fighting for or the resources they're providing.

also @ what meera said: YEAH thinking that "you're not human w/o sex" is defs not a worldwide phenomenon, every culture has a different take on appropriate sexual behavior or lack thereof so
The thing is that ace and gay are two very different sexualities. And in general, when people say someone is gay (assuming it's not meant to be derogatory), they mean both homosexual and homoromantic at the same time. Because that's usually what it is, right? Homosexuals tend to also be homoromantic. People are going to assume, if a homoromantic ace is called gay, that that person is both homosexual and homoromantic, and therefore experiences sexual attraction. And that's not correct.

And yeah, it is kind of sexualizing identities, but there's not really another way to say it, because the main difference between an allo person and an ace person is that one has a sex drive and the other, for the most part, doesn't. Celibate and abstinent people are still their sexuality, yes, but that is because they have a sexuality to begin with. Celibacy is a choice, abstinence is a choice, asexuality is not. That's an important difference and it shouldn't be glossed over.

I already mentioned that I thought Ena's suggestion of a separate community for ace/aro spec was a good idea, so I won't go over that. But I will say that I believe most het aces want to be part of the LGBT community because they are searching for a sense of belonging, if that makes sense? Like, they don't share goals, and they don't really fit in, but at least everyone in the community has had experience with being different from their peers, and having a common thread like that is v alluring to most people. And it doesn't last long since, as demonstrated by this thread, a lot of LGBT members don't view cishet ace people to be validly LGBT, and their back to not fitting in. Which is one of the reasons a separate community would be nice.
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  #1997  
Old 01-23-2017, 01:25 PM
meerkat meerkat is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverMoon View Post
like..... u could just say "this isn't true in Asia/wherever it's like _______"
instead of being rude and accusing me lmao
Sorry if I came off as rude, I just wish people would acknowledge this from a perspective that isn't white European
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  #1998  
Old 01-23-2017, 01:28 PM
meerkat meerkat is offline
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idk I don't think of homoromantic aces as gay like. I guess they're gay aces, and heteroromantic aces are het aces
(straight is a problematic word I only use it to describe The Straights TM)
but the thing is that it's established that gay can be romantic and sexual right? But aren't you not 'straight' unless you're heteroromantic heterosexual?

I've never interacted with het aces before though, so you don't really see a lot of "afraid of being gay" people because a good deal of them are aro-spec and pan, bi, and sometimes gay. As an aroace-spec most of the aces I've interacted with are aroace-spec and typically don't care about gender in relationships but I'm sure that's not representative of the entire ace community.

Sorry but I won't take your word for it.
I was literally one of those afraid of being gay people??
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  #1999  
Old 01-23-2017, 02:42 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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I was literally one of those afraid of being gay people??
but you're not ace
and you were in the het ace community
I used phrase "afraid of being gay" people because you mentioned it.
I haven't seen many of those, because the part of the ace community ice experienced is very aro/ace/queer.
Stop saying everything I'm saying is wrong.
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Last edited by SilverMoon; 01-23-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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  #2000  
Old 01-23-2017, 02:50 PM
venika venika is offline
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1. i mean aren't heteromantic aces / aro heterosexuals hets? like it's like... in the name isn't it? it's not denying their asexuality or aromanticism, it's just describing the ppl theyre attracted to afaik

2. also my knowledge of lgbt history isn't extremely detailed so correct me if i'm wrong but, weren't trans people at the forefront of like? modern lgbt activism? like w/ stonewall for example?

3. i/any1 else never said aces don't belong (or that they don't face social discrimination bc that's definitely a thing that happens) but i did say that straight ace people don't belong in a community that fights for the rights of same-gender-attracted and trans people? like it's not that they're excluded bc they're ace and bc gay ppl think aces are bad or something, it's bc they don't like the same gender and aren't trans, therefore they don't face the same issues... and therefore having a separate ace/aro community that focuses on the discrimination you mentioned would be a lot more helpful for both groups


also tbh i've never rlly seen anyone use the split attraction model outside of tumblr so does anyone know if like there are any articles abt it or smth?
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