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  #11  
Old 11-27-2014, 02:49 PM
lvhamsters lvhamsters is offline
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ok i hope this doesn't offend you but...
it wasn't self defense
he (michael brown) literally did not do anything to provoke defense
he was like 148 meters away from darren wilson when he was shot
and besides officers should know how to handle things calmly
why are white people allowed to take part in school shootings and such events and be brought in alive
michael brown literally only committed a couple of petty crimes, if at all. the punching thing and the wrestling the gun away are debatable. he didn't deserve to die for that...

sorry but the killing of an 18 year old who had his hands up in surrender is unjustifiable to me
Alrighty. How was it not a situation where self defense was provoked? Michael Brown was not only beating up the cop, but he was also much bigger than the cop. Not to mention he tried to turn the cop's own gun on the cop. Once Darren Wilson got his gun back he pointed it at Michael Brown and said "stop I'm going to shoot" funny thing is, Michael didn't believe him, said some words I'm not going to say on a kid's website, and then proceeded with what he was doing. So Darren Wilson shot him.
SORRY if I'm being rude this subject get's me angry.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2014, 03:43 PM
pluzzle pluzzle is offline
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Originally Posted by Lily09 View Post
We know that just because a white officer shot a black man it doesn't make it a hate crime, but when you look at the statistics, the evidence, the way that this case was treated, and Darren Wilson's background it's clear that this IS a race issue.
I would like to point out that racism is institutional. You cannot be racist to white people in the US. White people can be discriminated against for being white, but they DO NOT face racism. White people benefit from racism. We are taught from a very young age that white people are superior, maybe not by words or violence (though some of us do face that), but through representation in media, commercials, idols, etc. Please do not tell me that I'm generalizing things, because when people of color generalize white people, white people get offended. When white people generalize people of color, people of color get killed.
Yep there's a difference between racism and discrimination and caucasian people only face discrimination
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2014, 03:44 PM
pluzzle pluzzle is offline
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Alrighty. How was it not a situation where self defense was provoked? Michael Brown was not only beating up the cop, but he was also much bigger than the cop. Not to mention he tried to turn the cop's own gun on the cop. Once Darren Wilson got his gun back he pointed it at Michael Brown and said "stop I'm going to shoot" funny thing is, Michael didn't believe him, said some words I'm not going to say on a kid's website, and then proceeded with what he was doing. So Darren Wilson shot him.
SORRY if I'm being rude this subject get's me angry.
The whole thing with Michael Brown is that you can't trust people's testimonies. People lie. Everyone lies. And if testimonies don't add up, some of them (if not all of them) are lying. This is the thing; can you really trust Wilson's testimony wholeheartedly?
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2014, 04:03 PM
lvhamsters lvhamsters is offline
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The whole thing with Michael Brown is that you can't trust people's testimonies. People lie. Everyone lies. And if testimonies don't add up, some of them (if not all of them) are lying. This is the thing; can you really trust Wilson's testimony wholeheartedly?
Personally, I trust his testimony over all others. Usually that wouldn't be the case, but his testimony lines up with the witnesses testimonies along with the evidence found during the autopsy.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2014, 05:00 PM
pluzzle pluzzle is offline
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Personally, I trust his testimony over all others. Usually that wouldn't be the case, but his testimony lines up with the witnesses testimonies along with the evidence found during the autopsy.
I will never trust him, and thankfully I don't have to.

While that may be true, and perhaps it is, I don't believe it was justified and in the end - a young man's life was taken away from him in an unjust punishment for petty crimes.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2014, 03:11 AM
venika venika is offline
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Alrighty. How was it not a situation where self defense was provoked? Michael Brown was not only beating up the cop, but he was also much bigger than the cop. Not to mention he tried to turn the cop's own gun on the cop. Once Darren Wilson got his gun back he pointed it at Michael Brown and said "stop I'm going to shoot" funny thing is, Michael didn't believe him, said some words I'm not going to say on a kid's website, and then proceeded with what he was doing. So Darren Wilson shot him.
SORRY if I'm being rude this subject get's me angry.
Again, there are a lot of conflicting opinions, but as pluzzle said, at the end of it, this guy is a trained officer-- he could have very well have handled the situation without shooting Michael-- SIX TIMES.

Also as someone else said on this thread (I think it was pluzzle again), Michael Brown was shot twice in the head which breaks self defense protocols. And anyway, in such situations of self defense, you shoot until they stop moving...

He wasn't bigger than the officer: both of them were 6'4"... And that shouldn't be a reason to shoot either way. A seasoned officer like Wilson must've faced several physically larger people...

And even if he did steal the cigars, swear at the officer and all the other things that Michael Brown allegedly did, that doesn't justify his death. This is obviously a hate crime: if this was a white kid, he'd have been calmly taken away from the scene... Alive.

And sorry but I can't trust the testimonies of a guy who referred to an 18 yr old boy as a demon, an it and Hulk...

I apologize if this sounds rude or something... Like you, I have very strong opinions about this.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2014, 04:29 AM
lvhamsters lvhamsters is offline
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Again, there are a lot of conflicting opinions, but as pluzzle said, at the end of it, this guy is a trained officer-- he could have very well have handled the situation without shooting Michael-- SIX TIMES.

Also as someone else said on this thread (I think it was pluzzle again), Michael Brown was shot twice in the head which breaks self defense protocols. And anyway, in such situations of self defense, you shoot until they stop moving...

He wasn't bigger than the officer: both of them were 6'4"... And that shouldn't be a reason to shoot either way. A seasoned officer like Wilson must've faced several physically larger people...

And even if he did steal the cigars, swear at the officer and all the other things that Michael Brown allegedly did, that doesn't justify his death. This is obviously a hate crime: if this was a white kid, he'd have been calmly taken away from the scene... Alive.

And sorry but I can't trust the testimonies of a guy who referred to an 18 yr old boy as a demon, an it and Hulk...

I apologize if this sounds rude or something... Like you, I have very strong opinions about this.
The thing is, sure he was a trained official, but people don't seem to factor in a very human emotion called fear. If a large man is attacking you after trying to turn your own gun on you, fear is going to set in. You are going to think that the man is trying to kill you. In that case what else do you expect him to do? Get killed by that man? If you were in Darren Wilson's shoes, what would you have done in that situation?

But Michael Brown was still bigger than Darren Wilson, both in frame and weight. It may not be a reason to shoot but if there's a man of that size attacking you and you think he is trying to kill you, then that's a sufficient reason.

Michael Brown tried to turn his gun on Darrel Wilson. Sure he committed other crimes, but that's a big game changer. And it isn't necessarily a hate crime. It isn't necessarily about race. Media has made it about race. If someone's trying to kill you you aren't going to be looking at their skin color. You're going to be thinking of ways to get yourself out of there alive.

I think that part is understandeable enough. If someone of that size is attacking you, you wouldn't be calling them angelic or anything. It's perfectly acceptable to call an attacker a demon or hulk, because in a situation that's that extreme when you're terrified, that is what most people would be thinking. It's hard to judge if you don't put yourself in their shoes.

It's okay o.o let's just call this a friendly debate /.\ i seriously don't want to be rude in this or hurt anyone's feelings so just tell me if I'm crossing the line D: it's nice to have a good deBate though. People I know irl don't really care that much XD

AND CAN I SAY what really makes me angry is that half the people who say Michael Brown is innocent also say that every policeman is at fault, not just a singular corrupt policeman....if that makes sense. What are your guys' opinions on this?
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2014, 04:46 AM
venika venika is offline
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Originally Posted by lvhamsters View Post
The thing is, sure he was a trained official, but people don't seem to factor in a very human emotion called fear. If a large man is attacking you after trying to turn your own gun on you, fear is going to set in. You are going to think that the man is trying to kill you. In that case what else do you expect him to do? Get killed by that man? If you were in Darren Wilson's shoes, what would you have done in that situation?

But Michael Brown was still bigger than Darren Wilson, both in frame and weight. It may not be a reason to shoot but if there's a man of that size attacking you and you think he is trying to kill you, then that's a sufficient reason.

Michael Brown tried to turn his gun on Darrel Wilson. Sure he committed other crimes, but that's a big game changer. And it isn't necessarily a hate crime. It isn't necessarily about race. Media has made it about race. If someone's trying to kill you you aren't going to be looking at their skin color. You're going to be thinking of ways to get yourself out of there alive.

I think that part is understandeable enough. If someone of that size is attacking you, you wouldn't be calling them angelic or anything. It's perfectly acceptable to call an attacker a demon or hulk, because in a situation that's that extreme when you're terrified, that is what most people would be thinking. It's hard to judge if you don't put yourself in their shoes.

It's okay o.o let's just call this a friendly debate /.\ i seriously don't want to be rude in this or hurt anyone's feelings so just tell me if I'm crossing the line D: it's nice to have a good deBate though. People I know irl don't really care that much XD

AND CAN I SAY what really makes me angry is that half the people who say Michael Brown is innocent also say that every policeman is at fault, not just a singular corrupt policeman....if that makes sense. What are your guys' opinions on this?
Again, there are differing accounts about what really happened then... For example, Dorian Johnson, the friend who was with him at the time of the shooting, said that Wilson had instigated the attack, Brown did not try to wrestle the gun away from him, and that his hands were up in a gesture of surrender when he was shot...

Yes, hyperboles/exaggerations are okay, but I think referring to him as an 'it' is just dehumanizing. Descriptions can go too far, and I think not referring to him as a human is definitely crossing that line.

About the race thing: http://fishingboatproceeds.tumblr.co...s-will-say-its

'A lot of people in the coming days will say, “It’s not about race,” or, “The media is trying to make it about race.”

'But look at the data from Missouri’s state government: Black residents of Ferguson are twice as likely to be stopped and/or searched as white residents, and they are far more likely to be arrested. But searches of black residents are much less likely to discover contraband than searches of white residents.

'Around the country, when compared to white men, African American men are much more likely to be shot by police. They are more likely to be arrested. They are more likely to be convicted. And for the same crime, African American men will on average serve 20% more time in prison than a white man.'


^^^ from the post

It comes down to whether you want to believe the police accounts or not, I guess. If this was a one-time incident, I would believe the police too. But unfortunately this isn't an isolated incident: shootings like these have happened before, which is why my opinion is what it is...

Haha, yeah. Friendly debate it is, then.

Yes, I agree that you can't just blame every policeman. There are bad policemen, who are racist, corrupt, etc... but there are also good policemen who just want to make the country safe for *everyone*. Generalizing people is wrong, because that's what this is all about, IMO. Making sure that a certain race isn't generalized and assumed to be violent. (I'm not just talking about this case here, as i mentioned above.)
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Last edited by venika; 11-28-2014 at 05:02 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2014, 04:50 AM
venika venika is offline
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Originally Posted by Lily09 View Post
We know that just because a white officer shot a black man it doesn't make it a hate crime, but when you look at the statistics, the evidence, the way that this case was treated, and Darren Wilson's background it's clear that this IS a race issue.
I would like to point out that racism is institutional. You cannot be racist to white people in the US. White people can be discriminated against for being white, but they DO NOT face racism. White people benefit from racism. We are taught from a very young age that white people are superior, maybe not by words or violence (though some of us do face that), but through representation in media, commercials, idols, etc. Please do not tell me that I'm generalizing things, because when people of color generalize white people, white people get offended. When white people generalize people of color, people of color get killed.
Yes, I agree... If this was an isolated incident that had never happened before, perhaps it would be easier to believe the police's account. But the fact is, this has happened numerous times before. To mostly black people, and nearly never to whites. So despite what happened with the Ferguson incident, despite the differing opinions about who was innocent and who was guilty... it's not a far stretch to say that this was a hate crime. :/
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2014, 07:00 PM
Lily09 Lily09 is offline
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I'm just gonna pop in and say that in Ferguson, it is easier for police to discriminate against people of color. 67% of the population in Ferguson is black, while only 3 of the 50 police officers are black.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...n-white-police
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...te-officers-t/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nt-to-protect/

Not all policemen are bad, and not all are good either. However, there are flaws in the system and they should be fixed to ensure that there are less crimes/dangerous mistakes made by policemen.

Also, there is a lot of conflicting evidence and statements, and a trial might have explained several questions.
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