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  #21  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:26 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
well, sexual immorality in general is identified as sinful and some of the things defined as sexually immoral are,
- adultery (cheating, basically)
-homosexuality
-having sexual relationships out of marriage
ect. ect.
so i wouldn't have characters who weren't married, ah, doing stuff, either.
adultery and unmarried sex: make sense, even if I don't agree with the unmarried sex one
homosexuality: not anything like the other examples
(Also: If someone is homosexual, didn't God make them that way?)
considering that lust is a cardinal sin, doesn't that mean sex is in itself an immoral practice?
Additionally, homoromanticism isn't the same as homosexuality. I.E., you can say that you are uncomfortable writing any semblance of sexual situations / physical attraction / cheating / premarital sex BUT it has NOTHING to do with whether said relationship is homosexual or heterosexual.
So if you wouldn't write hetero characters going on dates but not doing anything sexual / nothing physical is remotely implied beyond what's acceptable between friends, then THAT'S the only reason why not including homosexual couples in stories would be okay. Because then it would be a matter of not including sex, not LEAVING OUT HOMOSEXUALS, which is the same as leaving out women or people of color. If you would call the latter two discriminatory, then isn't the former so as well?
What it comes down to is that if you're saying "I won't include homosexuals in my works because the bible says homosexuality is sexually immoral", you're really saying "I won't include gays because according to what I worship, GAYS ARE BAD".
I'm not trying to say you're homophobic....... just trying to say that you sound like you're trying to say you're lowkey homophobic.
Sin--> sexually immoral--> GAYS
Sin--> GAYS
immoral--> GAYS
GAYS ----> BAD
is what you're saying your religion says.
your religion---> you follow it
you follow it---> you believe it
your religion says BEING GAY IS SEXUALLY IMMORAL SIN---> you agree
you agree---> you think that being gay is sin
sin---> bad
gay---> bad ---------> you think gay is bad
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I see.
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  #22  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:27 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
no no no, i'm so not homophobic lmao.
ok, so, i'm not super comfortable with writing homosexual relationships, but i'm not real comfortable writing hetero relationships either tbh.
anyways i had this internal debate for while there, where i bounced the idea of having homosexual characters and after like, three months, and a bunch of studying i decided that i valued my faith more than the approval of my peers, and that keeping homosexuality out of my work would be a way of honoring God in my writing.

^that's the ultra-condensed version of it, at any rate. A lot more thought got put into the decision, but that would take a while to type and i'm lazy af.

Re-iterating here: I. am. not. homophobic. please don't take any of this to be an attack on the lgbt+ community because that is not what it's meant to be. ^~^
It honors God to not include a section of His creation?
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  #23  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:04 PM
Garrett Garrett is offline
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listen im close with God.
I feel like he cuts us some slack because he understands that we're human, and he created us with flaws and free wills. If he wanted us to do everything single thing he tells us to do, then why would he give us a free will?
im gonna put whatever the fuck i want to put in my writing. but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and bash God or anything.
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  #24  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:56 PM
Zelda Zelda is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverMoon View Post
adultery and unmarried sex: make sense, even if I don't agree with the unmarried sex one
homosexuality: not anything like the other examples
(Also: If someone is homosexual, didn't God make them that way?)
considering that lust is a cardinal sin, doesn't that mean sex is in itself an immoral practice?
Additionally, homoromanticism isn't the same as homosexuality. I.E., you can say that you are uncomfortable writing any semblance of sexual situations / physical attraction / cheating / premarital sex BUT it has NOTHING to do with whether said relationship is homosexual or heterosexual.
So if you wouldn't write hetero characters going on dates but not doing anything sexual / nothing physical is remotely implied beyond what's acceptable between friends, then THAT'S the only reason why not including homosexual couples in stories would be okay. Because then it would be a matter of not including sex, not LEAVING OUT HOMOSEXUALS, which is the same as leaving out women or people of color. If you would call the latter two discriminatory, then isn't the former so as well?
What it comes down to is that if you're saying "I won't include homosexuals in my works because the bible says homosexuality is sexually immoral", you're really saying "I won't include gays because according to what I worship, GAYS ARE BAD".
I'm not trying to say you're homophobic....... just trying to say that you sound like you're trying to say you're lowkey homophobic.
Sin--> sexually immoral--> GAYS
Sin--> GAYS
immoral--> GAYS
GAYS ----> BAD
is what you're saying your religion says.
your religion---> you follow it
you follow it---> you believe it
your religion says BEING GAY IS SEXUALLY IMMORAL SIN---> you agree
you agree---> you think that being gay is sin
sin---> bad
gay---> bad ---------> you think gay is bad
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon View Post
It honors God to not include a section of His creation?
woah woah wait a minute, ok, a few things here:
- Cardinal sins are not specified in the bible, which would be the only real religious text of Christianity. The seven cardinal/original sins (Lust, Greed, Gluttony, Sloth, Wrath, Pride, Envy) were made up by this guy, Dante, who had a /personal/ belief that those were the seven worst sins and wrote them into Dante's Inferno. However, yes, there are some theories/explanations that while sex is not something that one would get punished for (within the parameters set), humans were not originally meant to even understand what lust was and therefore could not experience it. Plus animals procreate all the time without there being lust between the two. Lust and sex are separate. So while Lust is sinful, sex is technically not.
- I have a couple of personal theories on the matter of God's Design, but they might be taken as offensive, so suffice to say that I believe that everyone is given their own challenges in life and because of our free will it is up to us how we perceive and approach these challenges.
- I just realized that i've never written any characters going on dates...

I don't think gays are bad any more than I think kleptomaniacs are bad. At least, not in the sense that you're insinuating. No, it does not honor God to exclude part of his creation, that is not what I mean to say. My beliefs instruct me to show love and forgiveness to all of God's creations, however they also warn against encouraging or submitting to sinfulness.
I can include characters with other sins, (Claira, for example, is kleptomanic: stealing is a sin) because I can show them developing to overcome this sin (often posed as a character flaw), however I cannot take this approach with homosexuality because that is not the way that homosexuality works, it's not something that is viewed as a 'flaw' or as possessing the ability to be 'overcome'.
Plus, an example: my best friend engaged/engages in premarital sex, premarital sex is sexually immoral and therefore a sin. I don't love her any less because she's committed this sin, however, just because i'm willing to accept it doesn't mean i'm going to encourage her to do it, or insert it into my work.

To summarize:
Lust does not equal sex, therefore sex does not, in and of itself, equal sin.

Gays are not bad, I do not fear nor hate them, highkey, lowkey, or otherwise.

Loving and accepting does not translate to purposefully adding anything to my work.

I'll have to do some more studying into homoromanticism, because actually I don't know what there is to be said about that.
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  #25  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:01 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
well, sexual immorality in general is identified as sinful and some of the things defined as sexually immoral are,
- adultery (cheating, basically)
-homosexuality
-having sexual relationships out of marriage
ect. ect.
so i wouldn't have characters who weren't married, ah, doing stuff, either.
but wouldn't it be kind of limiting to only write about Christian characters? aren't characters more interesting with flaws?

I mean, I'm atheist but I also have religious characters in my stories. I'm also against violence, but I still write about violence.

You can think homosexuality is a sin and still have gay characters. God wouldn't care.
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:13 PM
Zelda Zelda is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
but wouldn't it be kind of limiting to only write about Christian characters? aren't characters more interesting with flaws?

I mean, I'm atheist but I also have religious characters in my stories. I'm also against violence, but I still write about violence.

You can think homosexuality is a sin and still have gay characters. God wouldn't care.
i don't recall saying that i would only write about Christian characters..? Or did I and have i forgotten that i did?

at any rate, i'm not sure how 'Christian' translates to 'flawless'. my characters are flawed to hell and back. or at least I try to make them that way.
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Little boy inside my chest
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I've been lost and wandering
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I can't hear you anymore)
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:28 PM
Swallowtail Swallowtail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
i don't recall saying that i would only write about Christian characters..? Or did I and have i forgotten that i did?

at any rate, i'm not sure how 'Christian' translates to 'flawless'. my characters are flawed to hell and back. or at least I try to make them that way.
Not meaning to be rude but you could write a gay character without being 100% enthusiastic about it. Like how your friend has premarital sex and doesn't want to "overcome" it. You don't have to write it as a good thing or a bad thing just have it be part of the story. You know, have the character mention that she recently broke up with her girlfriend or have a character with a boyfriend who he is ever seen doing anything romantic with but is known to be the characters boyfriend.
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:29 PM
july3girl july3girl is offline
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guys look: if she doesn't want to write gay characters, who are you to stop her? re has said that she's not homophobic, she doesn't *hate* gay people, she's just uncomfortable writing them, just as she's uncomfortable writing characters who have sex before they are married. people have different comfort zones, and if she wants to stay in hers, who the hell are you to stop her?

take me for example: i don't like writing about modern characters in different parts of the world (specifically third world countries) because i don't want to screw it up and end up with a weird skewed idea of an area i don't have experience living in. i know that these people in these countries exist and their stories should be told, but there is surely someone better suited to do that. i have a line that i don't want to cross, so i don't. why is re's case any different?

i know that there are members of the lgbtq community on this site (a lot, actually) but she isn't being offensive. she isn't calling you names or saying that you are wrong and don't deserve to be here, because of course you do. she just doesn't want to write gay characters.

though personally i disagree with re's philosophy, it's HERS and she can do whatever she wants with HER writing.

we all have our own comfort zones. why should hers be any different just because it stems from her faith?
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:31 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
i don't recall saying that i would only write about Christian characters..? Or did I and have i forgotten that i did?

at any rate, i'm not sure how 'Christian' translates to 'flawless'. my characters are flawed to hell and back. or at least I try to make them that way.
Aren't you intentionally writing characters to have Christian values? they're all straight and believe in chastity.

How can you have flawed characters if they don't sin?
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:34 PM
july3girl july3girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Aren't you intentionally writing characters to have Christian values? they're all straight and believe in chastity.

How can you have flawed characters if they don't sin?
aren't there more ways to sin then just through sexual relationships? are people who have sex before marriage or are gay or who cheat the only ones who can sin?

also, i think that she said she is just is keeping the "sexual-sins" (i guess?) out of her writing.
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