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  #121  
Old 05-22-2011, 06:55 PM
shadowtide shadowtide is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwara View Post
Well, it's like the whole pulling the plug thing on a comatose/ brain damaged person. The vegetable has no say in what's going to happen to them, so it's up to someone else to make the say for them. Really, it comes down to an obvious matter of opinion. If you can't support the child, why have one in the first place?
Well then, I guess what we disagree on is that I believe that human life is sacred and needs to be protected no matter what. Whether the person is brain-damaged, hasn't been born yet, etc.
It isn't just an opinion, though. What it seems to me that you're saying is, if a person can't express their desires of what will happen to them, then it's all right for them to be killed to save other people trouble.
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  #122  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Kiwara Kiwara is offline
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In some respect yes, that's what I'm getting down to. But, I'm also saying that if it's also in the interest of the receiving end of the idea, then the idea should be taken into action. But that's only if they have no physical way of saying so for themselves. If they've already been born into the situation, then they have no reason to die. However, we've reached an impasse. /sticks out hand/ Agree to disagree?
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  #123  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:08 PM
shadowtide shadowtide is offline
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Um... No? Not exactly. I think it's completely wrong, the root of the views of most psychopathic evil dictators, and should be absolutely prohibited by law.
But I agree not to argue about it. :P
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  #124  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:08 PM
Kiwara Kiwara is offline
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Okay, I agree to disagree too.
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  #125  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:16 PM
RosiePie07 RosiePie07 is offline
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Oh gods. Here I am back at this thread again.

Kiwara, you have my support. Completely. Ugh. I don't know what to say in response to you, Shadowtide, without being so completely repetiative it gets obnoxious except for this which she might kill me for if she sees it:

I have a friend who's birth mom was fifteen or fourteen when she had her. My friend is pro-choice. It's so profound to me that she can say something like that knowing that her birth mom could have gotten an abortion and she would have never lived. Don't deny that doesn't seem totally profound that she doesn't want somebody's life to get screwed up because they were raped.

I have more to say but I have to go now.
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  #126  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:36 PM
shadowtide shadowtide is offline
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It does seem profound, on the surface of it.
But when you look deeper, it's not just her own life that your friend saying someone had a right to terminate, but the lives of millions of other people.
Don't take this offensively, but is saying that the right to life for the unborn is conditional any different from what people who, for example, believed that African-Americans, Jewish people, etc., were less human without rights, were saying? Do you think they were justified?
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  #127  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:27 AM
RosiePie07 RosiePie07 is offline
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Okay... Haha. That's so completely different from this. That's stereotyping and racism and supremecy. This is the hardest choice in a woman's life which could cause her to go into depression for months.
Unborn babies (from conception to three months in [the time you can get an abortion]) aren't even medically considered alive - they're embyos and fetuses, therefore, medically not babies, not alive.
And why should the government be able tell me that I can't have a chance at my future? Let's say I'm pregnant my junior year and I'm in all these different clubs and I'm in student council and I'm a role model for all the younger kids at my 6-12 school. Let's say I was raped as I was walking to the grocery store. Let's say I was applying for scholarships, I went in for an interveiw, they didn't except me because I was pregnant because I was raped, they didn't know, they just thought I was irresponsible. Let's say I get shunned by all the people at my school and I have no social life anymore, which causes depression, poor eating, less sleep, and all together worse health. My family doesn't have much money, so the medical bills are piling up, I try to get a job, no one will hire a pregnant sixteen year old. I can't find anyone to adopt the baby, I can't go to school any more, I drop out, find a part time job at minimum wage, am completely depressed and have no future, I kill myself or do drugs or abuse the kid because I'm so angry that I let this happen and dissapointed in myself. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PERSON WHO'S NOT READY FOR A BABY HAS ONE! Who's to say that the government can force me down this road by making abortion illegal, it's not fair to anyone - the baby, my parents, my friends, myself. And to answer somebody's question from a while ago: YES! They are better off never having been born! Imagine how the child feels thinking he or she did this to their mother?! It would be an awful, horrible life. And I'm not saying this is going to happen all the time, just most.
And then it basically comes down to the same thing that gay rights does: If YOU don't want to have an abortion DON'T get one! No one can hold that much power over me to basically ruin my life because someone else, hundreds of miles away in D.C., decided my choice was unethical. No one's saying that if you're pregnant under a certain age you have to abort your child, do whatever you'd like. I just don't think it's right that the US government can make the call for this moral decision. If you don't want to get married to a person of your same gender, you don't have to, but quit trying to control everyone else - not everyone has the same beliefs as you, so why should the government make them law?
And abortion was around when the constitution was written by our fore-fathers, if they would have thought it unconstitutional, they would have made it illegal, but they didn't.
Just a note: I'm a vegetarian who would never hurt a fly, if I myself got pregnant at a young age I'd probably do adoption, going against my family member's wishes and probably living at my best friend's house for a year. I believe in kindness and love more than anything - but I also believe in second chances and forgiveness and not getting your life totally screwed up because of one mistake or one horrid instance of violation. And I believe that when a baby is born, he or she should start out with the same chances as anyone else, having a mother who isn't even old enough to vote yet and a dad who isn't around is just not fair to anyone.
Oh. And when I'm saying "you" for most of this post, I mean all the pro-life supporters, not trying to single anyone out here.
__________________
Governor Swann: So, this is the path you've chosen? After all, he is a blacksmith.
Elizabeth: No.
[pause] Elizabeth: He's a pirate.
[Smiles, kisses Will, dramatic music, HAPPILY EVER AFTER (until they have to save the day again)!!!]


With inky love, Rose <3

CLICK HERE CLICK HERE CLICK HERE CLICK HERE

Last edited by RosiePie07; 05-23-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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  #128  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:54 AM
HaleyJ HaleyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwara View Post
I agree with you on Bush, Emma. Obama's doing a really good job trying to clean this country up.
I think that Obama could do a WAY better job then he's doing now.
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  #129  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:59 AM
HaleyJ HaleyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowtide View Post
Well then, I guess what we disagree on is that I believe that human life is sacred and needs to be protected no matter what. Whether the person is brain-damaged, hasn't been born yet, etc.
It isn't just an opinion, though. What it seems to me that you're saying is, if a person can't express their desires of what will happen to them, then it's all right for them to be killed to save other people trouble.
I agree with you. Life is a sacred thing. We can't just have a innocent life taken away just because you can't take care of him/her. If you could not at least put them in a adoption home. Then they can still live life even if it's not there parents they live with.
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  #130  
Old 05-23-2011, 05:26 PM
RosiePie07 RosiePie07 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaleyJ View Post
I think that Obama could do a WAY better job then he's doing now.
Really? Please tell me your suggestions.
__________________
Governor Swann: So, this is the path you've chosen? After all, he is a blacksmith.
Elizabeth: No.
[pause] Elizabeth: He's a pirate.
[Smiles, kisses Will, dramatic music, HAPPILY EVER AFTER (until they have to save the day again)!!!]


With inky love, Rose <3

CLICK HERE CLICK HERE CLICK HERE CLICK HERE
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