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  #2051  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:19 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
hey wonderful I get shit for not being gay and for trying to be part of the community that's wonderful. I guess I just can't belong anywhere then?? lol great let me just vanish into thin air like I should since I don't exist. Also not to be rude but no ones going to assume I'm straight and no one should know I'm ace is i haven't told them so??? And how does it hurt other LGBT people if I want to call myself gay? So I can't belong to a community that's supposed to be welcoming now? Ok lmao.
asexuals can't call themselves gay because
- a religion hasn't declared war on them
- they didn't deal with conversion therapy/shock therapy
- Uganda, Saudi Arabia, Russia etc aren't impartial and/or giddy towards the thought of their death
- Westboro won't laugh at your funeral
- you don't face sexual attraction
- objectively, you're not gay
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  #2052  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:22 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
^
while it's true that those who experience both romantic and sexual attraction to those of the same sex may feel more internalized hatred, ace people have a different type of hatred to their identity (like what rebecca said). even if those feelings are completely unrelated to the gay aspect, the struggles don't have to be equated for homo aces to be a part of the community
(these are just my thoughts im not calling this fact or anything skdhjfkf)
when they are calling themselves gay, they *are* trying to equate their struggles--they're saying that gay people/homoromantic asexuals might as well be the same group of people
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  #2053  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:24 PM
Jesse Jesse is offline
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Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
that's a completely unrelated concept though?
No it's not--you can't just call two different sexualities the same thing.
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  #2054  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:32 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
If you're an asexual person who dates members of the same sex, then yeah, you'll face discrimination from the people around you--just like a gay person would.

But asexuals don't experience internalized hatred for their sexuality on the same level as a gay person would. It's not even close.

The shittiest part about being gay isn't that people hate you--it's that you hate yourself, and you can't do anything to change it. Asexuals don't deal with that. To call an asexual "LGBT" is to equate their struggles to those of a gay/bi/trans person. That's my reasoning.
Aces hate themselves for being ace too just saying
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  #2055  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:33 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
If you're an asexual person who dates members of the same sex, then yeah, you'll face discrimination from the people around you--just like a gay person would.

But asexuals don't experience internalized hatred for their sexuality on the same level as a gay person would. It's not even close.

The shittiest part about being gay isn't that people hate you--it's that you hate yourself, and you can't do anything to change it. Asexuals don't deal with that. To call an asexual "LGBT" is to equate their struggles to those of a gay/bi/trans person. That's my reasoning.
also I'm sorry like???? You're not ace what do you know about what acespecs think and feel.
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  #2056  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:33 PM
rebecca rebecca is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Since asexuals have different problems than gay people, and don't even feel sexual attraction, you can't call them gay. Simple. Just call them "homoromantic asexuals" or something else?



Hi welcome back (even if it's just to prove me wrong), also sorry if I'm not up-to-speed with everything as I haven't been to tumblr in a few months, anyways-

But I did say homoromantic aces face judgement from other people, here's the quote:
"If you're an asexual person who dates members of the same sex, then yeah, you'll face discrimination from the people around you--just like a gay person would."

But calling asexuals "gay" is just wrong. You're equating two things which are not equal. And no, it's not the oppression olympics, but we don't call straight ppl lesbians, do we?
I saw that thing yeah man. I did read it was also generally rambling and these things came up in my rambles.

No, because straight people r heterosexual, lesbian refers specifically to female homosexuality, which ofc u know. However, w the homoromantic ace argument, I think comes down to which model of attraction you are using. And for a homoromantic ace person to refer to themselves as gay, they're focusing on one aspect of their identity there. Like a homoromantic bi person might be attracted to men, women, nb ppl, etc, however only experience romantic attraction to the same sex and so refer to themselves as gay to simplify this to people. I have a trans man frd who is bi and refers to himself as gay on occasion, and honestly I don't think he's wrong because of the fluidity of identity. Focusing one aspect of ones identity and referring to that is a thing. Sometimes it's easier, sometimes it's also true, for people who are homoromantic and in a same-sex relationship, if they choose to refer to themselves as gay then that's how it is for them. I don't think their use of this term is in any way a disrespectful thing.

For a homoromantic person to call themselves gay, they're referring to the fact they are attracted to the same-sex, albeit not sexually. And semantically speaking, the term gay is becoming more flexible in this regards. You can argue whether or not it's right for people to call themselves this, but it boils down to that if people are using a word in a certain way, then it ceases to be an incorrect usage. Like people using literally in a hyperbolic sense is technically correct now, if exaggerating slightly.

So gay coming to mean 'attracted in some way to the same sex' is just a natural step in language evolution and homoromantic people using it to refer to themselves is technically correct.

Assuming the word is actually undergoing this kind of broadening to begin with, which I think it probably is.
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  #2057  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:33 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Lily09 View Post
hatred of your identity shouldnt be a requirement to be part of a community

thats so fucked up
seconded .
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  #2058  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:35 PM
rebecca rebecca is offline
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
when they are calling themselves gay, they *are* trying to equate their struggles--they're saying that gay people/homoromantic asexuals might as well be the same group of people
or that they are certain elements in the same group of people, that homoromanticism and homosexuality are two aspects of having a gay identity (again tying into the concept of broadening)

which sounds a lot like having a superhero identity but nvm that
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  #2059  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:36 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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okay wow im here what am I even doing.
RIGHTO MY DUDE

I identified as asexual for a goodly chunk of time. In fact, I'm not 100% sure I still don't. My sexuality and romantic orientations are an ever-evolving mystery, I don't know what feelings I'm even capable of as an autistic person (I don't know if I can have intense romantic connection, and I struggle forming relationships). I've dated a grando total of one person who was pretty terrible tbh. But that aside.

As an asexual, I definitely experienced internalised hatred of myself for it. It's a feeling of being broken or perceived as such. To a degree, I'm still sex-repulsed and this terrifies me because I feel like I'm failing at SOMETHING. That I'm an immature child who'll never grow up and this is just another reminder of things I can't do. Like feeling attraction in terms I can understand. But I definitely felt like crap over being ace, partly because of how my ex treated it. She was very much 'oh, you're not really ace you're gonna come out as bi eventually' (I did, but I question that, whether I was pressured into that label). She was also 'you're just saying that because you've read it online' and 'haha autistic girls always say they're ace' and im like yah thanks ur a wonderful person so glad I dated u.

(some of this is retrospective)

As some others have pointed out, it's not an oppression olympics. We don't want to measure and quantify how much an acespec person experiences self-hate over this.

I've also gone through a lot of self-hatred over my confused attraction (? ish) to women, which is again a fun time. So I've been there too, hating myself over two aspects of my orientations. I'm unsure if I'm ace or aro, if I'm bisexual or biromantic.

So I mean, I'm not sure I'd ever be comfortable in a sexual relationship. I'm 18 now, and still as certain of this fact as I was when I joined KP at like, 13. A tiny little bean back then was I, and much has changed. But to say 'asexuals don't have that' is pretty unempathetic. Like, my relationship devolved because of this, because my ex couldn't accept my lack of sex drive (in part anyway) so I definitely experienced hatred toward that side of myself. And I know a good many other aces who question themselves and go through that self-hatred you argue is a Gay Exclusive Thing (tm)

I also have a lot of very good ace and acespec friends who have their reasons for considering themselves lgbt. At least one is biromantic, and another has a gf. Even if I did fall back on being ace, and identify as that again, I think I'd still refer to myself as bi to my family because it's easier for them to understand than 'oh hey I uh rly dont want sex at all' because that just gets the 'you've not tried it' argument. And I hate that argument. Have I heard that a lot. Yes. yes i have.

As I said, I'm very much uncertain about where I fall. My relationship w my ex ended over my lack of sex drive and the fact she wanted more from it than I did, emotionally and physically. Also she liked edgy racist memes too much. She's not a good person at all these days.

But would I consider myself LGBT? In some respect, probably. I don't know how yet. Still working on that stuff. Regardless, I think romantic orientations do qualify because - well, they're who you date, and people view dating as an inherently sexual thing, and are unlikely to make the distinction between homoromantic and homosexual. Like, if there's a same-sex couple out for a walk holding hands, people will assume and treat a nonsexual couple the same as they would a sexual couple there, because from their frame of reference they assume they are viewing a sexual relationship. Therefore homoromantic aces in same-sex relationships will still experience oppression.

The debate always will be about cishet aces/aros though, people always bring it back to that. And that's a complex one I'm not willing to get into here. But prior rambling aside, these are my thoughts on your above argument.

Sorry about lack of sense made here, I'm trying. And uh...dont expect a reply for like a year bc I never check this site anymore lmao oh yeah hey guys
I love all of this
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  #2060  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:37 PM
SilverMoon SilverMoon is offline
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Originally Posted by rebecca View Post
I have no bloody clue these days why r things like...not clearly spelt out why dont we just have...words
can I make this my graduation quote bc I've never related to anything more than this in my life
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